Why do you continue to talk about F/O's? I'm talking about N/B vs W/B.
That would include capts as well.

I don't think anyone can argue that having one pay-rate across the board... ie no more differentiation between N/B and W/B would NOT save the company the training costs associated with pilots chasing money. I think pilots should be able to chase the type of flying they want and not change planes just to earn more dollars. The point of it being though, we have to get the company to pass on the savings to us... and I'm not sure our pilot group (the Union... US) has the resolve to get that accomplished during contract negotiations even if the majority wanted it that way.. Thoughts?

I believe that is what happens at UPS, except for international override (assuming AUS stays domestic:)). The theory is FDX will save X $ on upgrade training with one pay scale. Having one pay scale will cost them Y $. If X>Y then it makes sense. The only cost to the crew force is the sense of pride the WB guys lose if the NB guys can buy the same size boat. Hope I just didn't upset AA again by posting a comment on his forum.

BTW the the AUS trip pays the same as the taipei trip since payrate for the bus and the MD are the same. Why do we pay the Bus and the Mad Dog the same rate anyways? And the 75 and the 72?

It seems to me that if we transition to one pay scale, the company will want to bring up the narrow body scale and simultaneously bring down the widebody scale to some middle ground. Since most of the crewforce is in widebody aircraft, wouldn't this result in a loss of earnings for most of us? Also, when we acquire 777's and 380's, there is no room for increased pay. I'm not sure I like the way this is developing.

Of course if we could get the company to just get rid of the narrowbody pay scale and pay everyone widebody pay, I'd be all over that.

It seems to me if the company wanted us to agree (thus allowing them to save money) they would bring the NB pay scale up to the WB pay scale. Again we already have a hybrid between the UPS model and the Delta model. Using your logic (in the first paragraph) we should be demanding different payrates between the MD-10 and the MD-11.

Who knows; having one pay scale might result in enough savings to give everyone a raise. And who knows what we gave up to get that nice 380 payscale we may never see.

[quote=FDXLAG;328003]Hope I just didn't upset AA again by posting a comment on his forum. quote]

Not upset at all. BTW, you lead me 1494 to 445, not bad for a 727 S/O. Think of how much knowlege and wisdom you will have in a few years. You'll really be able to crank it up then.

[quote=AerisArmis;328046]If you review some of my earlier posts you will see where I teach guys how to properly use the quote button so I see your point.

Don't worry the S/O will never be able to afford the same size boat as the capt with a single pay scale.

I don't have the figures, but one of the last articles I read from ALPA a while back, possibly pre 9-11, basically said that our narrowbody pay was less than industry standard, and as far as widebody pay, only the DC-10 was about right. The Airbus guys are overpaid, and the MD-11 guys are underpaid. Personally, I like the concept of tiered pay scales. It encourages upward movement and tends to put experience in the higher risk aircraft. By higher risk, I mean a larger loss to the company in the event of a mishap.

If it were cheaper to have a single pay scale, wouldn't the company have tried by now to negotiate one?

All this aside, I certainly wouldn't be opposed to a single pay scale if having one would have a positive effect on career average earnings.

There are arguments for one payscale. (Narrow equal to widebody, not somewhere in the middle) It would not really cost the company that much more in the big scheme of things. It would be traded for some savings in training with seat locks.

In a year or so we will see payrates at UPS for narrowbody flying significantly higher than ours. FOs, in particular, will make a rate similar to our widebody rates. Look at www.airlinepilotcentral.com


But the argument to increase pay as you increase seniority (upgrade to a bigger plane or international) is strong too. We have a history of getting pay increases for the upper half and bringing the rest along for some of the increase. ALPA standard. Not saying it is right or wrong, just is.

As far as us being a "hybrid" of other carriers I think we have just gone down our own path as we have added airplane after airplane. I'm not sure why we didn't get a higher payrate with a bigger airplane with the 757. That goes against our historical pattern. Maybe a NC chair that didn't care? I think we have a longer history than UPS and they just chose to go their own route. Delta just does it like everyone else before them with a payscale for every size airplane. CAL does it different to. We are more like CAL, or are they like us?

Odds are we will get a pay raise for the 777. That issue is being worked. Why we didn't get one for the 757 will remain a mystery.

Thought you were talking about F/O vs Capt when you mentioned taking care of the "Seinior" guys.