AUS_ATC

For all of you FDX Pilots:

What's up with the requests for an "Equipment Check"?

The ATIS is advertising Simultaneous Visual Approaches to 36L, 36R and 27; it's the morning inbound; and we are trying to get you guys on the ground as quickly as possible.

Then the requests for an equipment check start rolling in. Sometimes the Glidslope for 36R is out of service and there is no way to get you over to 36L due to other traffic. The Tower will not approve a 36C approach due to departure traffic. The pilot insists that he needs an ILS approach.

What's going on up there? Is there a FDX company policy to fly a certain number of ILS approaches during your trip? Is this to duplicate and document a previous equipment problem? Is this request submitted in order to "be safe" or slow things down a bit?

On our end, we have different separation standards for different runways, approaches and weather conditions; the ILS Critical Areas will NOT be protected due to other traffic on the airport; the ILS approach speed for some of the Airbus drivers really kills us for the trailing aircraft; and a good turn from the downwind will stretch the final even further depending on how many others might be following you.

Thanks for the insight,

MEM_ATC

Pilot7576

Sounds like a good plan to me....

Pilot7576

koz2000

Cat 3 approaches are only valid for 30 days. When the days remaining gets below 7 the company asks that we do a Cat 3 to restart the clock. It would suck if a plane timed out and it needed to get to a destination and was unable due to not Cat 3 certified. Also if a plane is written up in the maintenance log where it is no longer Cat 3 and maintenance fixes the problem, then the A/C will be due a Cat 3 check.

Thus the equipment checks.

FedEx1

I didn't realize that doing this would slow everything down. I mean, all we are really doing is an autoland (so, yes, we know you aren't protecting the critical area.) Personally, I still configure and slow as usual. It's just that we keep the autopilot on for the autoland. We can still do 170 till the marker, as you always ask. So, it isn't really an ILS we need to do- it's an autoland to a runway that has an ILS and G/S on.

Hard part is, lately we've been asked to slow to 160 or even 150 waaaay out by ATC. We can't do that even fully configured in the MD-11 sometimes- it's too slow for some weights. Hard to believe it's our own guys flying too slow when not asked to by ATC.

But hey, if you can't get us to the right runway, no big deal. If the plane was scheduled to fly somewhere where the wx was going to be less than Cat 1, then they'll just have to do an aircraft swap.

AUS_ATC

FedEx1,

Interesting. It sounds like I can still turn you in close to the marker; you track the ILS inbound; and most importantly -- you get the autoland out of the way.

There have been some comments by FDXers who have been turned on too close to the marker after having requested an "equipment check". I guess it's difficult for us to guage exactly what you want when an equipment check is requested.

I would venture to say that these speeds are being used when we are conducting Simultaneous ILS Approaches or "Staggered Approaches" to the parallel runways.

The wind at MEM is often very funky. I've seen the wind out of the east at 30+ at 4,000 feet on the final; then out of the west at 3,000 feet; then straight down the final at 2,000 feet. The Final Controller working the east final turns his traffic on at 3,000 feet, and the west final turns his on at 2,000 or 4,000. It makes for some interesting turns to the final, plus we must compensate for the "compression" as you guys get closer to the airport.

Many times the slower speed neutralizes the compression factor. We could run the final at a faster assigned airspeed, but then that would necessitate a longer downwind (yea, I know it's pretty bad already!) and greater initial spacing to compensate for the compression closer in to the airport.

This doesn't happen often. I notice it mostly on the wide base entry to our parallel finals. Everyone is indicating 250K groundspeed, and suddenly one fellow is indicating 210K for some unknown reason. We ask the pilot to say his speed, and then tell him to pick it back up until further advised.

Likewise... if you can't fly the assigned speed, or if you need to slow for turbulence, PLEASE let us know ASAP. We'd rather know in advance, rather than get caught on the final with someone in front, behind and next to you that requires specific spacing.

Thanks for the info!

MEM_ATC

Beertini

I would second that. We are trying to keep the planes CAT III capable and you guys are trying to expeditiously get us safely to MEM. There has to be a balance--if you can't accomodate an equipment check just tell us "unable" and we will accomplish the check the next time.

Thanks for the question MEM_ATC--it is nice to see non-heated conversation between pilots and controllers!

As an aside, I was coming in from MSP a few weeks back and you guys were busy sequencing all of us in. It was one of those evenings that everyone showed up at the same time and the final (landing south) was over 35 miles long. This was the conversation between a DC-10 and the controller as she was vectoring the -10 on base:

DC-10: 'Ummm...approach, do you have a second for a question?'
---silence for a few seconds 'cuz she didn't---
MEM: 'sure, go ahead'
DC-10: 'What is the reason for the 35 mile final tonight?'
MEM: 'Ummmm.....all of the traffic???'
---silence----

The only thing she could have added was 'Here's your sign!'

AUS_ATC

Beertini,

Thanks for the warm welcome. I was wondering if I was heading into the lion's den with my questions.

With regards to the 35 mile final...

1. At the beginning of each arrival push, the MEM TRACON Supervisor has a conversation with the MEM Center Traffic Management Unit (TMU). They discuss the weather; the anticpated number of arrivals during the push; equipment outages; staffing and any other related issues.

2. An Arrival Rate is determined. This "rate" is supposedly the number of aircraft that we can land on X-number of runways based on the weather and type of approach in use. One would normally expect 85+ airplanes to arrive over the course of the hour, but these aircraft normally arrive at the arrival corner posts during the first 30-40 minutes.

3. As a general rule, the Supervisors like to see the final "full". This means that they like to see us turning the base between 15 - 25 miles from the field. Depending on how the Center is feeding our Arrival Sector... how the Arrival Sector is feeding the Final Sector... how many Heavy's are in the mix... Controller Training... weather... staffing... etc., the finals can easily get stretched out to 35 miles or more.

4. Some Supervisors are more pro-active than others, and they will request that MEM Center slow you to 250 knots prior to crossing our boundary. MEM Center may even be asked to "spin" some of you outside of our airspace or even to put you in holding for a while. Some Controllers are very adept at using speed control on initial contact or vectoring you towards the airport for a downwind entry. All of this will slow you prior to reaching the airport, but will hopefully keep the final closer into the field.

5. There are many actions on the part of ATC that can help our situation, but the human factor is what often turns it into a mess. Toss in a go-around, pull-out, wind shear, a missed turn off of the runway, and things get ugly quick.

One other thing that affects spacing on the final, is this: The FAA is trying to TERMINATE / FIRE Controllers for losing separation on the final approach course. The days of running minimum spacing on the final are slowing slipping away. If the standard is 3.0 miles between two large aircraft, then 2.9 is cause for disciplinary action.

We now have folks in Washington, D.C. who will request a "replay" of data from an arrival push. These staffers, who have never vectored an airplane in their life, are measuring the vertical and lateral spacing of all aircraft on our final approach course. They also have the ability to match the voice recordings with the RADAR data. 2.9 miles... less than a 1,000 feet... and no visual separation or diverging courses? You are immediately decertified.

Some Controllers are still comfortable with running a "tight" final, while others are very concerned about losing their jobs. Big Brother is watching.

MEM_ATC

TonyC

I've never thought that "Equipment Check" was very good terminology in the first place, so I appreciate your asking the question. Clearly, it does not properly communicate to you what we need.

Sometimes, we need to accomplish a autopilot-coupled approach, either to Cat II minimums, or for some airplanes to touchdown, and for some airplanes all the way through rollout. Usually, the requirement is to update the currency of an already certified airplane. In such cases, we usually need nothing more than an ILS approach, nothing special. If the airplane behaves correctly, we can document the satisfactory approach, and it's good for another 30 days. If the airplane does not behave correctly, we usually look at what may have caused it. Were we turned to final too close to the marker with too great an intercept angle, and the airplane didn't have time to "catch up"? Was there an aircraft crossing the landing runway that interfered with the localizer signal? Was there an airplane parked in the critical area that interfered with the glideslope signal? If there is some such problem, we usually don't write up the system, we just wait until the next time to check it.

But when it gets close to expiring, or when we're trying to check an airplane that has been downgraded due to a mechanical failure that has been repaired, we really need a protected ILS to give it the best chance of succeeding. I believe that the terminolgy we should use in that case, to most accurately convey to you our needs, is that we request a "Practice Cat II Approach" or "Practice Cat III Approach." While that places a heavier burden on you, and you certainly can reject the request, it creates the best possibility of achieving a successful system check.



But, now that you've asked... most pilots mean by "Equipment Check" that they intend to fly a coupled ILS approach to Cat II mins or to touchdown, depending on the particular airplane.


We're just trying to do our jobs - - 100.0%







- The truth only hurts if it should.

dckozak

I suggest keep it safe, keep it legal, and don't do anything that risks your job for the sake of landing aircraft a little quicker.