"A fine upstanding company that cares about people"

Amen to that. There's one we agree on. Remember, it's the company that hires and fires, not the pilot group.

"I have to know... are you employed by UPS or are you a Wannabe UPS hiree"

832 on the list. The rest is in the profile.

"I would be suprised if you came from the military, for they are not narrowed minded"

I guess I'm narrowminded cause I think it's wrong to rent a seat like Gulfstream? Or because I'm not military? Whatever....

"How much did you pay for all of your ratings all together"

I have no idea, it was in the late 70's and early 80's. Why do you ask?

 

Hey the way you're hawking UPS, you may need a tissue for some of that UPS brown spot on the tip of your nose.

Oh yes thats right. They displace can pilots from companys they purchase. They didn't give them the opportunity to interview with UPS... but what the heck you have a job... what do you care about your fellow pilots put out on the street?

Damn... only a first officer? I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with a opinionated and judgement rookie.

Let's stick to whatever... you aint scoring any points.


I'm glad the tax payers didn't pay for your flying... That's not the real issue if you paid for all of your training without help from the folks.

What difference is does it make to you if some one wants to go the PFO route? Relax, you have your FO seat no one's going to take that away from you. You still have your job protection. Hey by the Ace, some of these PFO are amongst your ranks right now... so beware! You'll never know when they may be lurking in the halls in SDF.

You seem to feel very strongly about these people you lable as scum bags. If you got the balls, why don't you picket these flight shools that sponsor PFO programs with a sign that says "Scum Bags Go Home!" Better yet... barge inot their classroom and tell them to their faces that they're scum bags. I'm sure you'll be welcomed with opened arms.

 

Gents

Please ease up on the Pay for Training issue:

While I do agree it can and often does affect us all in a negative, Aspiring pilots need to get the ratings and experience somehow and some way.........................

A little history to remember.......when Federal Express started up in 1973..........many of the Falcon FO's (who were unemployed Military Pilots returning from Vietnam) paid to get a Falcon type rating (some used VA benefits) they were paying for training while flying revenue freight in falcons for Federal express.........

I was not here then so one of you (Real) Old-timers please chime in if I am in error.

The point is everyone of us pays for Training at some point..........................
Even us miltiary guys.


For the A-7 or A-4 or AV-8 folks.......some of us paid for a multiengine rating.
We pay for our ATP in a piper seminole..........(ATP mill)
Or we pay to get the Centerline trust limitation removed.
We all went to those FE or ATP written weekend ground schools.
How many Southwest guys "Paid" for their 737 types.........??

I do agree there are exceptions to the rule.....and with the down fall of the industry....................In my opinion fewer and fewer folks will be willing to shell out 10 to 30 grand for a job that makes less and has fewer benefits
that a Home Depot clerk. (no offense to Home Depot).

Until the Majors turn around............

Lets ease up a little bit on the PFTs..........

 

Amen to that.

 

"If you got the balls, why don't you picket these flight shools that sponsor PFO programs with a sign that says "Scum Bags Go Home!"

Well, I'm a moderator at another popular aviation career website where we educate the masses on the evils of Gulfstream style PFJ. That's about the best I can do. I thought you said earlier you weren't in favor of "buy a job" programs?

"A fine upstanding company that cares about people"

You were the one that said this, not me. I assumed you were being sarcastic so I cut and pasted it, then agreed with you. Trust me, there is no brown on my nose.

"They didn't give them the opportunity to interview with UPS... but what the heck you have a job... what do you care about your fellow pilots put out on the street?"

You're foaming at the mouth over something the IPA had no control over. We're you at CAC? Personally, I think those guys got shafted.

"What difference is does it make to you if some one wants to go the PFO route?"

I'm not sure what you mean by PFO. I'm against buying a job as a way to enter this industry. It lowers the bar and career expectations for everyone at the bottom. You don't think management loves it when guys are willing to PAY for a job, like Gulfstream. Next thing you know, NWA will be renting out 757 seats to people willing to fork over the cash. F/O's are a revenue enhancer at Gulfstream, why not try it at the majors?

"You'll never know when they may be lurking in the halls in SDF"

I keep hearing that. I think I might have met one in 15 years, but I'm not positive of the details.

"Damn... only a first officer?"

Not sure what that has to do with it but I've been getting Capts pay since the first of the year and go to school in a month.

You guys are right about one thing. I'm fighting a fight that has nothing to do with me. It will never effect me. However, I'm old school in that I believe there are some wrong things to do when entering this career. Gulfstream style PFJ and being a scab are the two biggest, in my book.

 

I'll second that.

 

Perosnally I gave up the madness, of kool ade drinkers like you, poor airline managment, and crappy schedules and went overseas. Living large. Life's to short son. Hopefully you'll mature and become a mench instead or preaching hatred.

PFO is another term for Pay for First Officer Training.

Send me the videos of you and your merry band of PFJ/PFT/PFO haters picketing these airline mills.


Yeah every one thinks that CAC got shafted... I didn't see any Brown Boys defending their jobs. Not even a shot at an interview.. But what the heck we're all grown up and make our own choice. Like I have said throught this thread, I don't endorse pay for training. I too never paid for anything beyond my CFII back in 1978. But you know what, it's not your right to deny anyone their dream of flying, nor is my right to endorse pay for taining.

 

UPS is not putting any pilots out of work with our purchase of Menlo.

 

True statement. I meant to correct that. I spoke to a friend of my with Kallita. They are to remain in KDAY at least until July or even as late as December. he was telling me that UPS was awaiting their Hazmat certificate. But that too is probably a rumor too.

 

"Send me the videos of you and your merry band of PFJ/PFT/PFO haters picketing these airline mills"

www.jetcareers.com

You should join up and see us educating the masses. You mention PFJ over there and it get's ugly really fast.

"it's not your right to deny anyone their dream of flying"

There are right ways to go about it and wrong ways. That's my opinion. Beyond that, it's a free country. You can't even deny that to a scab...