Airline Pilot Central Forums - Astar pilots to picket UPS corporate HQ

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Quote:

Originally Posted by A320fumes (Post 432582)

Every professional airline pilot should be scared to death from what has happened to ASTAR. Most UPS guys have been respectful and sympathetic to A STAR's plight....the vast majority. I don't think that ASTAR guys hold anything against the UPS pilots, but I do see how they could see the UPS corporation as an "enabler" in this tragedy. I'm a member of the worst performing sector of the travel industry, besides Amtrak, a pax-hauler, but if I were a cargo pilot I'd be thinking about cabotage/open-skies. I bet the bean-counters at UPS and FedEx would just love to outsource their flying to China Southern or Air Pakistan. I might be naive, but I think Americans would be more willing to ship their boxes via some foreign carrier than ship themselves or their children. Everyone should take a close look at their respective politician's view on open-skies/cabotage. Good luck ASTAR and UPS! Back to the pax forum.

If these foreign carriers were reliable, I would agree with you...But, when you offer a time critical product, the foreign guys don't cut it...yet.

This is all sad.

it is the same old song and dance... "Management and labor, keep rattling old sabers, Quacking like those peebody ducks!" name that tune gents.

On the side. I feel for all of you. Good luck to all of you?

OK, I'm starting to understand now. For a long time I just breezed through this section looking for interesting news. Since 99.9% of this board is purple and brown I saw no need to actually join APC and post. When I saw the DHL/UPS discussion I had to jump in, but alas, like so many other web boards it is too easy to get caught up in useless back and forth. I'll let you guys have it back now, CYA.

This is free market at it's best. Unfortunately we pilots get caught up in the middle of management BS. As for ASTAR pilots, I feel for you. As for UPS pilots, congrats. This isn't all about pilots, but mostly business. As a resident in the Wilmington area, I have a few friends who work for ASTAR. I feel their pain, at least ASTAR is being given notice of a change. It doesn't make it feel any better, but at least you have notice. I wish both side of the ASTAR/ UPS house good luck.

As a UPS pilot my first reaction about Astar pilots picketing ATL - I was ****ed. After a couple of seconds went by I came to my senses and thought "good for you!" Don't go down without a fight. Having walked a few picket lines in my life they are very useful in situations other than a strike. Hopefully news media comes to film and make your cause known. It is a crime that a foreign company can kill so many very good American jobs and the public needs to know what a ****bag Deutche Post is. 1100 very good pilot jobs will be exchanged for 100-200, maybe none at all.

A PATCO picket sign comes to mind - a mouse flipping the bird at an Eagle (representing the US Government) about to pounce on it.

Best of luck to all of you Astar/ABX pilots in this horrible time.

gremlin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Baron (Post 432503)

Fellow Aviators,

The business world has no morals. They don't give a damn about you, your family or your problems. The bottom line is money. Those of us with our morals still intact need to quit pointing the finger at other members of our profession. It doesn't matter who you work for because, in the end, every management team in this industry is the same ---FUBAR! Remember, management is to blame for furloughs, bankruptcies, and destroyed careers.
I hold no blame against any fellow aviators out there trying to make a living in this lousy industry. I'm going to look at the end of my career at ABX as a new begining to live a better life away from all the uncertainty that this profession dumps on its devoted participants. After 20 years of military and civilian aviation, I will walk away with no regrets and a smile on my face because I know I still have my dignity and self respect. Good luck to all of you!

Red

Red, I think you're almost right. The corporations involved here are the German Post Office looking to shed a poorly performing asset, DHL, and UPS standing ready to make a buck. No labor union plays a part, so if one pilot or another steps on his crank making a comment, what does it matter? But directly to your point, about FUBAR airline managers, my sense is, they're not even at the table here. Right now we're talking about the managers at the true corporate level deciding the future of little pieces of their empires. I bet the airlines aren't even consulted. In military terms, way beyond their paygrades.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistlin' Dan (Post 432648)

Technically, Baker is probably telling the truth. The side letter you're referencing was signed in 1998, prior to the spin-off of Astar.

As for the recent CBA, if DHL was smart (and they're not, but their lawyers are) they had no input whatsoever in drafting the contract. They know that you can't be accused of "negotiating in bad faith" when you're not negotiating. They told The Daz to handle it, and he did.

Of course, he didn't see any of this coming. NOOOOOOOOO.... :rolleyes:

"Plausible deniability," I think they call it.

Technically Dan you are once again - WRONG. You really need to keep your hands away from the keyboard when you do not know what you are talking about. You have not been a part of Astar since you got fired and you are ignorant of the facts.

Since when did and sane pilot ever believe any of the propaganda spouted by management?

DHL occupies a seat on the Astar board of directors (Hans Hickler) and was a party to the entire negotiating process - including (and most importantly) the negotiations regarding our no furlough clause AND our growth clause. In fact, the negotiations over those specific sections happened at DHL Headquarters in Plantation.

Furthermore, our scope clause from the 1998 contract is still very much alive if it can be proven that DHL's part in our most recent contract negotiations was conducted in bad faith - that is: with the knowledge that the UPS deal was being negotiated simultaneous with our talks.

Our claim is completely valid and legally binding. Of course whether we win in court or not remains to be seen. We are up against powerful forces and they fight dirty. We do, however, have the law and the truth on our side. we'll just have to see how that works out for us in the long run.

Driver

Excellent post driver. Spot on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER (Post 432822)

Technically, then, you have nothing to worry about. Why all the bother? Just show the judge your contract from 1998 and say, "Your Honor, we like this one better than the one we signed this year" then go home and collect paychecks until 2019 while UPS flys your freight.

Pretty sweet deal, I'd say. I don't know HOW this could have slipped past those dundering bobbleheads at O'Melveney & Myers.

As for the rest? Hey, I never argue with a guy who owns a time-machine.