Airline Pilot Central Forums - Astar pilots to picket UPS corporate HQ

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Priority 3 (Post 431603)

I was for preferential interviews for you Astar folks, but with this boneheaded move I now would prefer that you stand in line like everybody else.

Can I mow your grass for $20?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortguy (Post 432070)

Can I mow your grass for $20?

Congrats on such a high-level first post here, Shortguy :rolleyes:

They HAVE picketed DHL HQ..............

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Originally Posted by say that again (Post 432016)

They're picketing the wrong company headquarters. They should be picketing DHL and Deutche Post in Bonn, Germany. While I feel for them, they can kiss any preferential hiring at UPS goodbye with this move.

Actually, the Astar pilots HAVE already picketed DHL HQ in MIA and they might in Bonn, also. I know if I would if I were in the same place.

And sometimes, whether or not I decide to continue a fight, even a hopeless one with nothing to gain, is up to me... the individual pilot group. Not those judging me and saying that my quest is hopeless. And preferential hiring?!?! Ask the Interstate, Orion, Challenge, and Emery pilots about that.

ToiletDuck, if I were a UPS pilot, Southwest pilot, Fedex pilot, NetJets pilot or any other pilot working for a group that benefited from less competition or a contract won, I would quietly be happy for my company getting more jobs and greater stability. But I would also have the common sense to not make insensitive and obtuse statements like others on this board have. Certainly, I would not gloat nor belittle those other pilots who may lose their job's to my company's benefit. I would like do like the IPA has done and continue words and actions of support for those affected pilots, but plan for the positive gains from the new contract.

Also SideshowBob, I got some of that same treatment at CVG and a few other freighter's hubs myself. But then again, there are "some" in every group. For every idiot, there are ten great pilots that shake their heads at the way we were treated. I'm glad you made it to a better place.

When this deal goes through, and then UPS IPA contract time comes, I guarantee that these 1100 highly-paid and highly-qualified fellow pilots unemployed and on the street will not strengthen your case. If anything, it will make your claims weaker. Much better to have four highly paid pilot groups, rather than only two, to spread out the industry standard. And much like our economy now, the middle class of airlines have been destroyed. Only the very rich and a few comparatively poor companies are surviving now.

And now to my mantra:

Bottom Line: Don't be too excited when market forces allow your company extra work by the destruction of another company. When even ONE pilot is unemployed, paying for training, or flying for free, it allows management to say "Hey, we have people that will PAY to do your job".

Good luck to us all during these tough times, especially to those pilots of Astar and ABX.

In Unity,

B727DRVR:cool:

P.S.- If the deal doesn't go through, I wouldn't be surprised if both Astar and ABX survived. Think about it, how many freight companies are surviving now anyway. It is fewer and fewer every day, much less competition out there... And when it comes to UPS IPA contract time, I wouldn't be surprised to see both ABX and Astar pilots standing next to you in YOUR picket against UPS HQ. Oh, that is only if they survive..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priority 3 (Post 432092)

Congrats on such a high-level first post here, Shortguy :rolleyes:

Thanks, I've been reading here for quite a while but never felt the need to post. Now that there are pilots that can't wait to take my job I feel a little different about that.

I'm on my way to the picket line now. I don't think it will do much but I'm willing to do my part to fight for my job. It's all I've got other than some lawn mowing opportunities.

Thanks for caring guys, makes me proud to be a pilot. Now excuse me while I go and eat another unemployed pilot for breakfast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priority 3 (Post 431603)

I was for preferential interviews for you Astar folks, but with this boneheaded move I now would prefer that you stand in line like everybody else.

Do you really think preferential interviews or hiring was ever a consideration from your management? Have they ever done this in the past?? Emery? The 757 outfit down in FL (forget the name)?

Besides, why do you give a crap if they picket UPS HQ? Its not like they are trying to take away YOUR flying.... just trying to keep what is THEIRS in the first place.

Get a clue!!

FBP

Quote:

Originally Posted by B727DRVR (Post 431981)

Pretty Clueless, Brown! Amazingly clueless, actually.

Nobody ever said that they were going to picket the IPA because everybody knows that it's not the IPA pushing this through, it's UPS management.

The IPA is being pretty smart by keeping relatively quiet about the deal and giving their best wishes of support to the ABX and Astar pilots. Some of you individual UPSers, however, are making clueless, obtuse, and insensitive statements to brother and sister pilots about to lose their careers. Way to put salt in the wound of those who are about to lose their job.... ME ME ME!

They are picketing UPS HQ and you would too if it were one of the last cards you had to play for your pilot's careers. Believe it or not, it will be better for IPA pilots in the long run to have some fellow high-paid fellow pilot groups out there to defend your industry standard. When you are down to just two good paying carriers, it's hard to call it industry or standard.

Again, they aren't picketing the IPA HQ and don't blame the UPS pilots. So don't take it personally when fellow pilots are fighting the fight of their lives to save their job by picketing the HQ of the competition. I guarantee that the IPA would be doing the same thing at the DHL HQ, if fates were reversed and I would be writing this same post in support of YOU, Priority3, and all your IPA pilot brethren. So, I promise that I will write a similar post defending the IPA pilots, if ever necessary.

Dude, that's a really clueless statement for you to make no matter which side you work for. Can I get an amen here?

Still, though, good luck to us all in these hard times, especially the UPS, Astar, and ABX pilots and really especially to you, Brown.:D

In Unity,

B727DRVR

Given UPS's dislike for the IPA and general dislike of pilots it might have been better if we as a group had not made any positive comments about hiring ABX/ ASTAR pilots. UPS has and always will hire the person they want, input from labor is not desired. The fact that we have any recommendation procedure is a miracle.

My sympathy to the ABX/Astar folks. I have been where you are, hope you find something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B727DRVR (Post 432114)

Let me get this straight, you threaten UPS/IPA pilots by suggesting that there will be 1100 scabs during our next round of contract negotiations but yet preach unity on the other hand! ****?

I'm confused by all this doom and gloom. Didn't your Management at ABX/Astar just last week say they will get new contracts and everything will be fine. Just a bump in the road.

Or is he lying? He was making out that they will survive. So why the picketing? According to your management you still have a job and a good contract. So according to him you will still go to work and get that pay check.

Or is your management a bunch of idiots lying to it's employees and media?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nashmd11 (Post 432193)

While I can only speak for my own group, I'll try and clear up the misconceptions for both.

As for the AStar group, we will be finished. Dasburg rolled into town after the announcement and pretty much said that our only chance to survive was if:

1) the deal fell apart on it's own.
2) The DOJ nixed the deal outright or caused such a delay that both parties walked away.

If the deal goes through, all AStar aircraft will be "put" back to DHL, the doors will be locked and all employees will be let go. AStar will cease to exist.

As for the ABX group, The pilot group is in negotiations to operate in the ACMI world without the DHL contract (read at reduced wages and adjusted work rules). On a positive note, they still might be able to salvage their A-Fund this way.
The company would be greatly scaled back and most likely operate as a dedicated 767 ACMI airline to complement Capital and ATI. As to how much they would scale back, that is unknown at this time. The ABX guys I've spoken to say that they might lose half of their list. The most pessimistic number was two thirds which places them at around 200 pilots down from aprox. 600. This is the "Getting new contracts" that your hearing about and will only be for ABX.

Sucks to be us :(

FAJ

Amazing! No one here EVER said anything about these guys scabbing!

Quote:

Originally Posted by say that again (Post 432192)

Let me get this straight, you threaten UPS/IPA pilots by suggesting that there will be 1100 scabs during our next round of contract negotiations but yet preach unity on the other hand! ****?

Saythatagain,

I'm Amazed! Never did I threaten any of my IPA friends and fellow pilots, nor did I or anyone else other than YOU EVER insinuate that these guys would ever scab during your next negotiations. I'm one of the guys here that has actually stood by you guys on a IPA-IBT picket line, with great personal threat to my flying job and everything to lose by doing the right thing.

Maybe you need to re-read my post to see that I simply said that any time fellow pilots are on the street, especially highly-paid pilots from a former competitor, it only serves to weaken your position for "industry standard" wages.

In Unity,

B727DRVR:cool: