FDX: Don't make the same mistake video... :)
08-06-2008, 09:25 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,409
Originally Posted by Albief15
That was a National attempt to keep US Air in the fold. It missed by only a few hundred votes. I admit I chuckeled at the video too, but the intent was noble.
08-06-2008, 09:47 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 829
It was a noble attempt? The US Air pilots were looking at losing a relative 18 or more years seniority in some instances (one guy I know said he - as a 18+ yr US Air guy - was going to end up behind an America West dude with less than 1-yr) with the ALPA-brokered deal and the video was 3 people saying stuff (the same stuff) about insurance, etc 3 times each.
Nowhere did it address the whole reason why US Air started the whole process in the first place.
Nowhere did it address the whole reason why US Air started the whole process in the first place.
08-06-2008, 09:51 AM
#24
Slainge Var'
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Zeppelin Tail Gunner
Posts: 1,530
Originally Posted by LivingInMEM
It was a noble attempt? The US Air pilots were looking at losing a relative 18 or more years seniority in some instances (one guy I know said he - as a 18+ yr US Air guy - was going to end up behind an America West dude with less than 1-yr) with the ALPA-brokered deal and the video was 3 people saying stuff (the same stuff) about insurance, etc 3 times each.
Nowhere did it address the whole reason why US Air started the whole process in the first place.
Nowhere did it address the whole reason why US Air started the whole process in the first place.
08-06-2008, 01:07 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 829
Call it ALPA-brokered, ALPA-sponsored, whatever. Apparantly, the mutually agreed upon mediator was in-part chosen by the ALPA (whether it be local or national). And, I am sure that ALPA representation was used in the mediation.
And now, that ALPA has been voted out, the mediator's conclusions are apparantly non-binding. Seems to me that calling it ALPA-brokered isn't too far out of line - but what would you call it?
I have no dog in the fight, but it seems simple enough to me - the arbitrator's decision has not been implemented.
For the record, just because an arbitrator makes a ruling does not mean (at least to me) that it is the "right" ruling. Has anyone done any reading on the stats from arbitration hearings concerning credit cards and debtors? A "neutral" arbitrator has to be paid by someone. A "neutral" arbitrator walks into the process with certain predispositions. A "neutral" arbitrator may have been given/or not given certain facts with respect the case at hand. Seeing how ALPA national went against the majority with respect to Age 65, why could they not feel inclined to use the US Air situation to cater to the regional pilot groups? Is that too much out of the question? The process can be as flawed as any other.
If anyone has the details of the arbitrator's decision, feels it was fair, and would like to explain - I am all ears. But, from what I have been told (admittedly by US Air pilots), it didn't sound good to me.
And now, that ALPA has been voted out, the mediator's conclusions are apparantly non-binding. Seems to me that calling it ALPA-brokered isn't too far out of line - but what would you call it?
I have no dog in the fight, but it seems simple enough to me - the arbitrator's decision has not been implemented.
For the record, just because an arbitrator makes a ruling does not mean (at least to me) that it is the "right" ruling. Has anyone done any reading on the stats from arbitration hearings concerning credit cards and debtors? A "neutral" arbitrator has to be paid by someone. A "neutral" arbitrator walks into the process with certain predispositions. A "neutral" arbitrator may have been given/or not given certain facts with respect the case at hand. Seeing how ALPA national went against the majority with respect to Age 65, why could they not feel inclined to use the US Air situation to cater to the regional pilot groups? Is that too much out of the question? The process can be as flawed as any other.
If anyone has the details of the arbitrator's decision, feels it was fair, and would like to explain - I am all ears. But, from what I have been told (admittedly by US Air pilots), it didn't sound good to me.
Last edited by LivingInMEM; 08-06-2008 at 01:13 PM.
08-06-2008, 02:19 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
Originally Posted by LivingInMEM
Call it ALPA-brokered, ALPA-sponsored, whatever. Apparantly, the mutually agreed upon mediator was in-part chosen by the ALPA (whether it be local or national). And, I am sure that ALPA representation was used in the mediation......................................... .................................................. ....................
If anyone has the details of the arbitrator's decision, feels it was fair, and would like to explain - I am all ears. But, from what I have been told (admittedly by US Air pilots), it didn't sound good to me.
If anyone has the details of the arbitrator's decision, feels it was fair, and would like to explain - I am all ears. But, from what I have been told (admittedly by US Air pilots), it didn't sound good to me.
First off, it wasn't an ALPA brokered deal. It was an agreement for Binding Arbitration between two groups: The Pilot's of the former America West (USAir West) and the Pilots of the former USAirways AAA (USAir East). Each MEC was fighting and fending for itself. ALPA National couldn't take sides since both groups were ALPA.
There is a Big difference between Mediation and Binding Arbitration.
And when you are speaking of the Law, it doesn't matter if a law is ""right just or Fair" The law is the law.
I ain't no lawyer, Maybe Vagabond will chime in here and add her 2 cents ??
When both sides or groups covered by a Collective Bargined agreement agree to Binding Arbitration, what theyare saying is We will never come to a negotiated ending, therefore we agree to put our lives in the hands of a Nuetral Arbritrator (who is for all practicle purposes a Judge) and we agree to abide by the the his/her decision. Basically you put all your cards on the table and hope for the best. There is No negotiation or ammending once the decision is made.
It is legal and the arbitrator's decision becomes Law. The end result might not be Fair, just or right but the decsion is final.
Of course anything can be appealed especially if you have a large check book to pay legal fees.
Bottom line don't agree to Binding arbitration if you can't live with the decsion.
Last edited by RedeyeAV8r; 08-06-2008 at 02:31 PM.
08-06-2008, 02:29 PM
#30
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
Originally Posted by LivingInMEM
Call it ALPA-brokered, ALPA-sponsored, whatever. Apparantly, the mutually agreed upon mediator was in-part chosen by the ALPA (whether it be local or national). And, I am sure that ALPA representation was used in the mediation.
And now, that ALPA has been voted out, the mediator's conclusions are apparantly non-binding. Seems to me that calling it ALPA-brokered isn't too far out of line - but what would you call it?
I have no dog in the fight, but it seems simple enough to me - the arbitrator's decision has not been implemented.
For the record, just because an arbitrator makes a ruling does not mean (at least to me) that it is the "right" ruling. Has anyone done any reading on the stats from arbitration hearings concerning credit cards and debtors? A "neutral" arbitrator has to be paid by someone. A "neutral" arbitrator walks into the process with certain predispositions. A "neutral" arbitrator may have been given/or not given certain facts with respect the case at hand. Seeing how ALPA national went against the majority with respect to Age 65, why could they not feel inclined to use the US Air situation to cater to the regional pilot groups? Is that too much out of the question? The process can be as flawed as any other.
If anyone has the details of the arbitrator's decision, feels it was fair, and would like to explain - I am all ears. But, from what I have been told (admittedly by US Air pilots), it didn't sound good to me.
And now, that ALPA has been voted out, the mediator's conclusions are apparantly non-binding. Seems to me that calling it ALPA-brokered isn't too far out of line - but what would you call it?
I have no dog in the fight, but it seems simple enough to me - the arbitrator's decision has not been implemented.
For the record, just because an arbitrator makes a ruling does not mean (at least to me) that it is the "right" ruling. Has anyone done any reading on the stats from arbitration hearings concerning credit cards and debtors? A "neutral" arbitrator has to be paid by someone. A "neutral" arbitrator walks into the process with certain predispositions. A "neutral" arbitrator may have been given/or not given certain facts with respect the case at hand. Seeing how ALPA national went against the majority with respect to Age 65, why could they not feel inclined to use the US Air situation to cater to the regional pilot groups? Is that too much out of the question? The process can be as flawed as any other.
If anyone has the details of the arbitrator's decision, feels it was fair, and would like to explain - I am all ears. But, from what I have been told (admittedly by US Air pilots), it didn't sound good to me.
And if you are married, you know exactly what I mean ...
And even though it is not obvious by my screen name, I don't have a dog this fight either. As a matter of fact, I had 10 years in the USAir kingdom and 7 years in the Cactus regime.
And I don't favor the USAir opinion ... FWIW.
The Nic award should stand. And eventually it will, if the company survives again !
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