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Old 08-20-2008, 07:51 AM
  #11  
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Careful who you vote for, then.....


Foreign Ownership Debate Delays Open Skies




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17 May 2006 - A watershed commercial aviation treaty between the European Union and the United States is on hold as the airline industry and members of the U.S. Congress debate a U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) proposal to encourage more foreign investment in U.S. carriers. If conflicting opinions expressed last week at a U.S. Senate hearing and the pessimism coming from certain European circles are indicators, the purported benefits of the new E.U.-U.S. open skies deal reached in November won't be realized for some time.
"The E.U. side will not receive a firm proposal to consider until later this year, and the earliest an agreement could come into force would be the summer 2007 traffic season, which begins in late March," according to a statement this week by Association of European Airlines secretary-general Ulrich Schulte-Strathaus. "We realize that this is a phased process, but it is regrettable that domestic pressures in the U.S. are creating unnecessary delay and give rise to all sorts of speculation."
Those domestic pressures spilled into Congress last week with U.S. airlines and elected federal officials lining up on both sides of the debate.
Those in favor said DOT's proposal--once finalized--would inject much-needed capital into U.S. airlines, foster competition, promote cross-border partnerships and convince European officials to accept the tentative E.U.-U.S. open skies deal. After that, they said, the door would be open for more liberalized aviation agreements around the world, notably in Asia.
Those opposed suggested job losses at a combined U.S.-foreign entity would first impact U.S. workers, and faulted DOT for circumventing Congressional authority and pandering to European negotiators.
During last week's hearing held by the U.S. Senate's subcommittee on aviation, Continental Airlines President Jeff Smisek said "both the original proposal, and now the supplemental proposal, would allow foreign citizens to control virtually every commercial aspect of a U.S. airline." That, he said, is a product of the "blind pursuit of a so-called open skies agreement with the E.U., which is anything but open. It gives U.S. [passenger-cargo] combination airlines like Continental little except the meaningless right to fly to London Heathrow airport without being permitted to land there. If we started doing that, we'd run out of airplanes pretty fast."
Smisek also accused DOT of telling each side what it wants to hear. The agency "is promising foreign investors that they will have control over U.S. airlines because otherwise the E.U. will refuse to sign the open skies agreement," he said. "And [DOT] is promising Congress that foreigners won't have control over U.S. airlines. So the proposed rule will create years of substantial uncertainty for both foreign and domestic investors as the legal and practical consequences are sorted out and, I assure you, litigated."
Capt. Duane Woerth, president of the U.S. Air Line Pilots Association, similarly accused DOT of bowing to European demands. "The [notice of proposed rule-making] assumes U.S. airlines are clamoring for foreign capital," he told the Senate committee. "The truth is, the NPRM represents the wish list, and now the demands, of E.U. airlines, not U.S. airlines and certainly not U.S. airline employees."
He added that U.S. policy should not be swayed by "arbitrary and artificial deadlines represented by scheduled meetings of E.U. ministers."
"ALPA does support an E.U. open skies agreement," Woerth continued, "but I find very objectionable the pre-conditions or side deals to good faith negotiations between the U.S. and E.U."
Several congressional Democrats also voiced concern about the foreign ownership proposal during the hearing, including New Jersey Sen. Frank Lautenberg, North Dakota Sen. Byron Dorgan and Minnesota Rep. James Oberstar.
Congressional Republicans speaking at the hearing said they supported the proposed rule, including Mississippi Sen. Trent Lott, Arizona Sen. John McCain and Florida Rep. John Mica. Some said they could not understand how minority interests held by foreign investors would lead to decisions to the detriment of U.S. airlines or the national interest.
"Reportedly, no decision to sign a comprehensive air transport agreement will be made by the E.U. unless DOT finalizes its rule-making on the definition of actual control of U.S. airlines," according to McCain's prepared statement. "But instead of applauding freer and more robust commercial relations with our neighbors across the Atlantic, some would rather turn inwards."
United Airlines also added its support, saying it would prefer the complete elimination of foreign ownership limits. "Outdated restrictions on foreign investment are applied stubbornly and uniquely on the airline industry," said Michael Whitaker, vice president of alliance, international and regulatory affairs, suggesting U.S. carriers have been disadvantaged as a result. "United, American and Delta no longer are the Big Three. Air France, Lufthansa and Japan Airlines now hold those spots."
As the debate simmers in Washington, Europe awaits clarity. "Only clear, meaningful and robust DOT rules will enhance the likelihood of a balanced E.U.-U.S. aviation agreement," said AEA's Schulte-Strathaus. "The issue is whether the U.S. is serious about treating global aviation like a mature industry."
DOT said it would accept public comments on the revised proposal through early July.
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Rottweiler View Post
Kinda quiet on this thread.... Not very many offers of hiring assistance this time around.

My .02 is that the ABX and Astar guys and gals are shooting yourselves in the foot. Anyone wasting their time writing letters to their senator, making picket signs or walking at a protest are wasting time you could be networking with friends, sending out resumes, and looking for a new job.

You're not the first to ever have this fate befall you. Thousands have walked this line at Aloha, ATA, Champion, etc... And many airlines from Eastern and Pan Am to West Pac and Vanguard. And with 10,000+ "Post-911" furloughees from United, American, Delta, USair, Northwest, Continental, and America West all finding their careers recovering, you're hard pressed to find sympathy while protesting DHL and UPS. All of the pilots I mentioned above could have "put up the good fight" and "died with their boots on" and all of the other catch phrases I've read, but it would not have amounted to any saved jobs.

Good luck. I, personally, have not had the ideal career, but I have spent each downturn remarketing myself, not writing stern letters to the CEO of the company where I was furloughed.

Rott

Don't get me wrong I'm not picking on you Rottie but I'm getting tired on of hearing all the guys who do not have "a dog in this hunt" claiming that we (ABX & Astar)are NOT networking and attempting to find suitable alternative employment. I can write cover letters and send resumes to airline recruiting departments and send my Senators and Representatives anti-trust letters too. It is not one or the other. Yes, you better bet we are networking, for what it is worth, our families are depending on it! As far as the example you stated of all those other airlines that failed and whose pilots pick themselves off the ground to re-establish their aviation career, WE KNOW. We worked at those failed airlines. Where do you think we came from? We picked ourselves up once or twice and we will do it again. However, I fail to see why so many other airline workers would take exception to our small group fighting a last ditch effort to delay or avert the loss of our incomes, health care benefits, and already earned retirements.

As far as "remarketing myself" what would you propose I do? I have updated and sent resumes, called all my friends and my friends friends, I have gone to employment consuling, I continue to study the FAR/AIM when I am not flying freight, I am brushing up on potential interview questions even though there are no interviews to be had. The only thing I feel I could possibly do that I haven't is buy a B737 type rating. My family and I decided that spending 5K to 10K$ on a rating that would only add me to the list of 30,000 already qualified B737 airman was not in our best interests. The SWA job, although a great opportunity, is just too much of a long shot considering the present financial costs to us. However, f you would like to give me the cost of the rating, well, that is different! I still have two weeks of vacation left this year and I am willing to provide my own transportation to the simulator facility. PM me and I tell you where to send the check..
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:38 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by Huck View Post
Careful who you vote for, then.....

You can say that again, a windfall profits tax on "Big Oil" could continue the problems at a lot of airlines.
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Albief15 View Post
Are there any programs for guys displaced to get type ratings with some workforce funds?
ABX has setup a program which will allow F/Os to get typed in the airplanes that they're flying in the company's sims at no cost to the pilot. They just have to do it on their days off.
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Old 08-20-2008, 10:03 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by Rottweiler View Post

My .02 is that the ABX and Astar guys and gals are shooting yourselves in the foot. Anyone wasting their time writing letters to their senator, making picket signs or walking at a protest are wasting time you could be networking with friends, sending out resumes, and looking for a new job.
That little lecture from a unusual number of UPS pilots has surprised me. They’ve declared themselves the winner before the politcal gaming is over. Just a bit self-serving, I’d say.

Last edited by penguin22; 08-20-2008 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 08-20-2008, 10:17 AM
  #16  
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Wake up. The Game is over. Maybe not the "political" game. The DOJ will not, and cannot FORCE a company to keep a Vendor contract. In the end, maybe, they will massage some benefits towards the Ohio workers. Like job search help or some medical benefits.

Watch. In 6 months UPS and DHL will have suceeded with the agreement.
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Old 08-20-2008, 10:26 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Commando View Post
The DOJ will not, and cannot FORCE a company to keep a Vendor contract.
The DOJ can disallow the agreement. Which puts DHL in a corner. DHL has said if the agreement doesn't go thru, they'll pull out of the US. There's alot of folks around here that want to call that bluff, because they've got else nothing to lose.
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Old 08-20-2008, 10:35 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by penguin22 View Post
The DOJ can disallow the agreement. Which puts DHL in a corner. DHL has said if the agreement doesn't go thru, they'll pull out of the US. There's alot of folks around here that want to call that bluff, because they've got else nothing to lose.
Great, just screw the other 40,000 DHL employees. Real nice.
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Old 08-20-2008, 10:38 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by UPSFO4LIFE View Post
Great, just screw the other 40,000 DHL employees. Real nice.
Don't believe everything you read. The actual number of DHL Express employees is 25,000. Hey, once you kill off 10,000 jobs, what's another 25,000, right?
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Old 08-20-2008, 10:41 AM
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I never believe everything I read, but hey, let's make it 25,000 then, why not?
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