FDX-Open Time Comment from Jetflyer
 

I saw this in the jetflyer and thought it would make for a lively discussion. Comes from one of our WB Capts:

I flew with a senior F/O in June who screwed up bidding and had a 61-hrtrip dropped due to a 1-minute encroachment into the 12-hr trainingbuffer. He was with me on a crappy YMX trip, and explained that he wasliving on M/U to get his hours back (he didn't realize the trip wasdropped until after the CIA window closed). He was telling me how hewas amazed that he could sit on the computer and check open time everycouple minutes, put in for the very-average trip that had just comeopen, and still miss it due to 'earlier time stamp'. He later flew witha captain who told him 'you need to get with the program', as he pulledout his I-Phone. His phone chimed, he told him, every time a new tripcomes open. Constantly looks at open time and re-freshes VIPS. Certainly the over-manned situation has lots to do with this right now,but the point is that open time, trip-trading, and open time release hasbecome a joke for the vast majority of us, and most don't realize it. None of this is factually backed up, but as I've started asking aroundabout this, I'm realizing that I might as well not even try for opentrips unless I get some kind of technological advantage. But do I havethe best, or is it enough? I hear of some guys writing their ownprograms, some use Bid-x, some bastardize other programs. People canpre-program parameters, and if the newly open trip meets them, it doesthe trade (or M/U) automatically. Guys tell me stories of people with 6computers all logged on and using special software; or of sending in 15trip trades (with their clock synched to the VIPS clock) at the zerohour of open-time release, and getting half of them. No wonder all ofus idiots only see "VIPS server is busy". Don't waste your time withthe finger-on-the-enter button method. Now we know why, to the vastmajority of us, open time release is such a joke that we don't eventry. And what about the guys who are flying when open time comes out? On a side note, someone else said he knowssomeone who got a Double-European-DH X-pairing 2 months in a row thissummer. What are the chances of that, even when there's a shortage ofpilots?? And as technology advances, this is only going to get worse. Someonewill always out-do what's just been done. I am pushing for the MEC(along with Fred Eissler) to address this in the next negotiations, butso far, it's only been met with yawns (we don't see this as a big issue,we need more emails about it, etc.). At an absolute minimum, in myopinion, the MEC should find out what's out there, and bring this allinto the open and let us have an honest discussion about it. I hardlythink the response will be that it's OK for smart guys to dominate opentime. The company has no dog in this fight, but as I see it, we'reeither all going to start salivating everytime our PDA dings (fastesttyper or electron wins), or we worry that someone's just outdone ournew, $200 software program. The people at the biggest disadvantage arethose who only need to trip-trade a few times/yr. You'll only get whatthe techno-dudes don't want or need. And it only takes a few people in each seat to rule open time. Or we can deal with it in other ways. Some airlines leave trips in opentime a period of hours, and then hand them out based on seniority,taking into account how many trip trades you've had that month, or inthe last 60 or 90 days. UAL has a mini-bid when open time comes out. Or maybe give a person 1 trip trade based on his super-fast software,but after that you're at the bottom of the list. There are ways to dealwith this without giving the senior people any more advantage than theyalready have, but the guy who writes the best software programs doesn'tdeserve inflated seniority either. Certainly, the vast majority ofpeople I've informed about this, agree that some kind of alternativemethodology needs to be found. And the pigs will sqeal, you can bet onthat. Think training dept and our last negotiations. But as I told myMEC rep, the fact that I have 99% 'earlier time stamp' crewnotifications over the last 12 months of trip-trading adversely affects my life much more than anything thecompany has done to me with the optimizer. And this is pilots doing itto each other. Those with the advantage are being very quiet. So email your MEC rep, talk to other pilots about it, go to a localcouncil meeting and bring this up, so we can come up with a rationalmethod of open time and trip trading.

Here's my hack on this:

1. Senior FO mentioned above should know the contract and know that if you have training in a given month it's "pay attention time." and watch out for CICs.

2. This guy is afraid of technology so he wants to compensate with seniority. I scoff, the technology approaches, Bid-X and MagicWebFX aren't that hard to learn and are cheap subscriptions. So get into it or stop whining, I'm glad the union has given him the "yawn".:D

here we go again with that open time stuff....

I've even asked my ANC block rep about it and I'm still not sure what it is.

guess I'll have to keep muddling along without it.... :o

Jag
You Kill me :)

I know... I kill me too!!!! :D

"big smile... BIG SMILE" Det. John Riggs

That was one of the whinier Jetflyer messages I've seen in a while. He must be voting for OB, since he wants the "wealth redistributed".

Oh well, at least I got a good laugh out of it.

keep it up! we reserve long beards love it when open time gets devoured by those who live above their means! more time with the kids at home!

I lost the pay for a OTP trip because I couldn't make it up in the two month window. Sure, I could've flown the SUB trip when offered, but it was tacked on to three days in a row of Burbank-MEM hub turns. No thanks. I figured it'd be easy to make up it up over the next two months. Wrong. Next time I'll take the SUB trip. What's the point of even having that option in the contract if it's next to impossible to get a 6 hour (or longer) trip in open time? On the upside, APT STDBYs are always available for those willing to roll the dice.

.............

If the senior F/O had played the training buffer game correctly, he could probably have had himself an even nicer trip than the one that was in conflict.

It's a hidden gem in the contract for the junior guy.

Pay the money for the programs and get an iPhone. The one sweet x pairing per year that you are able to pick up makes it well worth the money.

Then again, what do I know, I am just a 32% squeel'in pig.

Deuce -

Could you have used your OTP during the subsequent view/add window?

Wasn't there plenty of choices in there before the VTO lines were built??

If I could have used OTP during the view/add window, I didn't know that. If that's the case, then bad on me. I'll look it up.

I don't think you can use OTP during View/Add. You should get first dibs on Open Time when released. I was able to pick up a trip or 2 using OTP and the Crew Notification was sent within 1 or 2 minutes of the original request.

Bro, after seeing you in the parking lot the other day I don't think you'll be able to shave that thing AND get to work in the 3 hour window.

Guess it's a safe bet that he doesn't own a Slingbox either. ;)

Use of 'advanced' technology and programs does not guarantee you get the first time stamp. It only narrows the odds a little bit because of all the computer/network variables involved.

IMHO, OpenTime should remain first-come, first-served; and, because of that it is and probably always will be a game of chance. These days there are just fewer opportunities to place a bet.

Open time should only be available for senior guys, as all the junior guys should constantly be out flying and filling the company coffers.:rolleyes: Seriously, I agree with FlybyKnite, that open time should be on a first come basis. That said, things aren't always fair, as we've all got things going in our lives that keep us away from the computer, like: flying; wives; girlfriends; keeping the two apart; fishing and hunting trips; etc, etc. It's a shame when you miss one of those great pop-up deals. Life sux, but it sure beats the alternative.

JJ

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
 

I just got an iPhone and love it. Anyone want to share what the program is that does the auto notifications?

So who is going to write the counter editorial for the jeflyer?

I agree, this guy is making a mad dash for more seniority benefits. Now that he is senior, he wants to change the rules to favor the senior. No hidden agenda here, it's all out in the open.


This system has worked great for a long time at FedEx. Quite honestly, if he wants to compare us to other airlines I wonder if he really wants to work here.

An obvious reference those not over sixty! :rolleyes:

The guy isn't that senior. I don't think that's his angle. He's just one of those whiney, complainer types that likes to point out things that aren't "fair". If it's not fair to him, then he makes a big stink.

I'm not sure what guys expect these days. We are supposedly fat on pilots, so why does anyone expect there to be open time sitting around waiting for everyone to have a chance to peruse it. Leave the system alone, don't make it harder than it has to be.

No, it was only a reference to those things that keep one away from the computer, and thereby away from open time trips. Nothing more and nothing less.

JJ

This is not about technology, it's just a convenient excuse or target. Of course, in his mind, it is the reason. For that "reason" he wants to change the whole system. Just for him. You don't need a computer program to tell you trips are in open time to get the first time stamp. You can get all the pages in the world but if you are sitting at a computer you will beat a pager watcher. You won't always win (he wants to win all the time) but you will get a trip here and there if you just watch open time. He just doesn't want to spend his precious time doing something so beneath him. Everything is about him and what he wants to do. He doesn't want anyone to have something he doesn't have first rights to when it's convenient for him. Notice I didn't say something he can't get. He has access to dropped trips from SOMEONE ELSE'S line just like the rest of us. No one should use seniority to get someone else's cast offs.

He doesn't even realize he is the pig and sure is doing the squealing. Everyone he talks to, FE, MEC and Jetflyer are putting up with his antics just to be nice. Someone needs to let him in on the truth.

He and his kind our the biggest danger to our group.

Just to insure some lively conversation, I dont think anyone is whining. I preferred the old contract, if training conflicted with a trip you were removed basically at company expense. You weren't forced to snivel for open tme. Does no one think that one reason there is no open time is it is all snapped up before it is released?

Good point, but it is another issue altogether.

Since we are changing the subject--

We should have 2 open time "areas". After all, other airlines do it.


One would be trips dropped and offered by the company before reserves get it. First come first serve.

The other would be trips offered from someone's schedule for trading or pick up. Perhaps even a PDO bump offer. When you see an offer your acceptance of the pickup/trade request would take it directly off the other person's line. This would solve the problem of "insufficient reserves" when you want to adjust your schedule. Making this electronic bulletin board should not be difficult for a "technology company" such as ours. Other airlines do it.

That would help our quality of life more than the "Seniority based Open Time" option offered in the jetflyer. All that does is make life better for some and harder for some. Zero sum game.


Don't even get me started on picking up part of someone else's trip. They do it other airlines.


(If you haven't figured it out, I'm making fun of the MD CA comments in the Jetflyer about what they do at "other" airlines)

Guys I work for somebody else but this complaint about a technology advantage is pretty lame. I am as ham handed as anybody but going backward is not an option. Myself I used this advantage to do all the work for me looking for trips when on I'm the road. You may want to have a discussion on how to use tech advantages to make every thing fair but thats about it...

Remember, don't shoot the messenger. <g>

Most of the replies I have had from this posting on Jetflyer is the fact the author of the message wants more regulation.

Based on the number of replies, 2/3 do not want or believe nothing will happen with this issue.

I decided, too, not to put any postings concerning the elections. I don't have time or server space for all those emails...

Good on you Mr. JetFlyer. Sorry I implicated you.

What is this thing, "open time", you speak of?

You don't want it. Waste of time and energy.

There's ONE in November for ANC (left seat) as I type,;)...better hurry up.
fbh

You mean???? I can work on my days off??

Just when I thought it couldn't get any better.:rolleyes:

Yeah, and spend the day in Oakland! Oh boy!!!;)
fbh

P.S. I forgot to mention it's over Thanksgiving!!

Not me, I have that hidden agenda thing going on.

I think SM should just cut'n'paste a few choice replies from this thread, and go heavy on the Gunter please :D:D

And my point was that most over sixties still working don't know how to fish or hunt, so that doesn't apply to them!:rolleyes:

Sorry, that went right over my head. I've been off work for the past year and a few months and I've still not gotten bored enough to go fishing. As for the hunting thing, well I did that in Viet Nam, and the thing that made that so exciting was the prey shot back. I've yet to see Bambi with an AK-47, so I'll leave the hunting stuff to someone else.

JJ

If you conflicted your training with your line you can make those hours up in the View/Add Window ---- yes, some sniveling there too, but alot of cherry trips to pick from before the VTOs are built and looong before the minimal morsels in Open Time are released.

Open Time
 

One of the trips that popped into open time in ANC today (159/1NOV) was picked up by a guy who is working 33 out of 35 days in the November bid month. With guys working that much, it's no wonder there's never any open time.

True that, I just think this was one of the rule changes in the last contract that increased company scheduling efficiency which means less bodies required.

HOLY COW!!!! how does that guy get all those trips? every month... must have some hellish techno stuff.....

He's not working THAT much... Life's a lot easier when you just call in sick on your scheduled R days so you're ready to go when you want to work on your days off...

As a commuter, it would be suicide!! Living in domicile has its advantages. I'm sure that they consider it a "day off" when their not called out on reserve. It looks like he wasn't used at all on reserve last month.
I just wonder if the flying they pick up goes towards their leveling? If so, it's a brilliant idea. Anyone know the answer?
fbh
life-long commuter