Roberto

It doesn't look like you subtracted federal income tax. state income tax, medicare tax, union dues, and who knows what else.. <g>

Also, it been posted that Cobra medical for a family is $1800 per month. How about pension credit and 401(k) contributions?

And maybe lines that have 5 hours (for example) less flying and more time off would be a good thing.

And I don't know if your assumption of unemployment insurance would be a given, and certainly not beyond some number of months.

Also, a break-even point for your example of 200 pilots furloughed would probably be fewer than a 5-hour guarantee hit. It would be a complicated function which would include the money the company saves in the future by not furloughing.

I think a more accurate accounting would be a part of any plan the IPA comes up with, if indeed one is needed.

sfergson727

Sorry Slug, but as a UPS pilot of two years now, and having been through the demise of one airline, and thus two years of first year pay (one here, one at another airline), your suggestion is about the dumbest idea I have ever heard. As a former ALPA FO Rep for a major airline, I have no idea why in the heck you even started it. Ridiculous all the way around. I guess it's good I was displaced to ANC in the MD, at least I don't have to listen to this kinda crap on the 757 anymore. (not that I heard it before, but if this is the trend, I'm glad I'm not there to partake in said crap)

Gunter

757Slug,

What about the lost wages for folks downgraded to FO from CA and FE from FO during a furlough? What about the expense to the company for retraining? I'm sure they will want to extract it out of the IPA if this is "a deal" to protect the income of higher seniority guys like you not affected during a furlough.

5 hr cut? If you are only 5 hrs overmanned then you can hold the company to the contract and make them pay. It's peanuts on the bottom line. If UPS costs out a furlough and, seriously this time, plans for one, expect a larger cut to prevent one. Expect the cut in hours to be cheaper for the company too. The expense of moving pilots downward is surprising large because you have to figure the cost of training them back into higher seats as soon as the economy recovers. Even if it is only a little bit.

If you cut your average, you will have more CAs and FOs. Some will see higher pay....

Roberto

Good point, Gunter. I had not considered that part of the equation. If UPS were to furlough, rather than spread the extra pilots around the system, it would be after a round of displacements that would downgrade many.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

Unfortunately I disagree with you - when it comes to it the vast majority will be voting against any kind of reduction for themselves and claim they're simply protecting the contract. Then they'll have donation drives to purchase $25 Christmas gift cards (similar to CAL pilots - not that there's anything wrong with that idea) for all furloughed to feel better about 'taking care of our own.' I feel that we have a strong union but remember that most senior pilots here have never been furloughed and if they have it was years and year ago. Therefore they simply can't fathom the effect it has on a family's finances.

I still think it'll never come to a furlough however IF the company ever decides to save money and lets the union decide how to do that - plan on the junior guys to be sacrificed.

By the way, I feel the same way about other airlines too, not just UPS. The only exception I can remember in recent times was when Airtran pilots took a temporary pay cut (or rather froze their contractual pay raises for a year or so) in order to prevent a furlough of their junior pilots right after 9/11.

Again, I don't think it'll happen but they might try to scare us with a furlough...

Naven

The only reason this has come up is because of Fedex's contract. Sorry I don't have time to research the #'s but the point of their BLG reduction is not to take a pay cut, it is to take such a hit on allowable flying that the company can't furlough. To all fellow UPS guys out there, please stop doing the company's job for them.

Gunter

you are right.

The min pay per line has to go down about 20% at FDX BEFORE a furlough. Our line spread is a max of 13 hrs.

There is debate in how this can be legally interpreted but it offers a disincentive for furlough. Until an intent to furlough is announced, min pay can not be changed.

Knowledge is power. Knowing that furlough is expensive means a furlough is unlikely unless the payoff is large enough.

de727ups

Mod note:

Title of thread modified to reflect OP's wishes per PM convo.

2cylinderdriver

At FDX the CBA langauge is a little misleading. The provision on reducing hours has nothing to do with LINE value or BLG in FDX speak. What we have at FDX is a Minimum Bid Period Guarantee (MBPG), currently 68 hours in a 4 week bid. The CBA allows the Company to reduce the MBPG to 48 hours, essentially a new floor of pay protection, to PREVENT or DELAY a furlough. All the while FDX can build actual lines as they wish within CBA limits across different fleet types.

There is no language that says the actual lines must all be below X before a pilot can be furloughed. It could certainly prevent or delay one, but we are actually in a tenuous position because rather than try to address any overmanning through "normal" protocols (like retirement incentives) FDX can just spread the wealth and save money from not buying up lines in seats they have too many bodies in. The only ways to fix overmanning are to get more flying, or reduce staff through retirement or furlough. Anything else is just a band aid or cost saving measure.

If we had some control over the methodology and science behind "proving" a need for the use of a reduction in MBPG that would certainly help because FDX is MAKING lots of money and certainly can afford to pay us our 68 hours ! (ditto for you UPS guys)

FliFast

Slug,

I have a better suggestion, fly as much open time as possible with guys on the street, that's a help too.

Turn in your union card at your earliest convenience...thank you.

FF
192 from the bottom

Please close this thread, the topic should be divide and conquer -or-eat the young.