FDX - Communications from the NC
 

Just read the little "note" from the NC Chair.

Similar to the presentations at recent meetings, but still a big improvement over past updates from the NC. I actually learned something about what was going on in the process! Not just fluff!

discuss! :D

Assuming everything JG said is true (no reason not to think it isn't) regarding the company's actions, it's amazing how they do show mixed signals between just wanting to do cost saving and solving a manning problem.

My first thought is...they are covering their asc 'cause they know something (big?) is going to happen and they (might?) have missed an opportunity to succeed...

...going to re-read it and think about it

Which side are you talking about, union or company or both?

What's it gonna take?
 

Folks, let's give the Union leadership some credit and support. The latest comm is eye-opening and everything I read lately makes me feel better about this Union.

Ask yourself, what has management been putting out as far as "comm"?

FedEx voted greatest company in the Universe for 10 zillionth time
Singapore cargo pilots now living in boxes rather than flying them
"5 star" ratings for all of flt management on A JOB WELL DONE

If you aren't getting in-line behind our Union right now, you need to be checked for an IQ and a pulse.

Convair out

JG just said MPBG had to "snap back" if a furlough occurred. You can't interpret 4a2b any other way.

So the question is - Does the company want a furlough or not if conditions worsen?

If they do it, it has to be big. Otherwise buyups would start again.

This protects us from a mini-furlough that has little meaning. Our manning all over the place inhibits, but does not prevent, furlough too. But, at some point, the costs are outweighed by the potential savings.

Too close to call folks...

I'm with you. I mostly kid around on here (it's not the forum it used to be) but it's now or never for us.

To be honest I have heard a lot about the company offering deals that included no furlough language. Of course I wasn't told it was just until May and 58hr months. Deals that were done and the Union walked away from. I have to believe the union now. I can't imagine what their agenda to lie would be (it's their a$$ too) We are being hit harder than the pilots at bankrupt airlines. I choose not to question the unions agenda from now on.

I love FedEx and love my job and I'd do it for 25% of what I make (or free) if I felt it was for the right reason. We are getting the shaft ... Let's live by the agreement we have and let the grievance run it's course. I'll bet anyone on here there won't be a furlough (unless it's a very few to try to divide the pilots).

I'm not a Dave Webb fan at all, but I like the way the union is standing tall. Lets help and back the guys on the front lines.

What odds are you giving?

I don't believe a small furlough is in the cards at all. I'm talking about the big one, so to speak.

Thanks John
 

Amazing what a well written and informative piece like this can do to rally the troops.

Just hope we can be kept in the loop like this more often.

Good information goes a long way towards keeping the divisiveness among the various groups of us (senior/junior, line dog/flex......) at bay.

It also lets us all vent our frustration and efforts at the real “mis”–managers of this whole mess……

I agree with you. In my opinion, they can't furlough, even a token 25 guys because that will nullify 4A2B and they lose the money they are shafting us by having to buy up to 68/85 again.

I predict they will drag this out, have an excess bid to show "intent" but never furlough and claim that the paycuts were justified.

This is nothing more than Mook-a-nomics and somebody, eventually, will have to pay for the decision.

I don't know, this management group seems to have an unlimited capacity to interpret anything however they want, regardless of pesky facts.

So far I'm very impressed with JG's words ... he seems to understand the problem and it would appear he's not inclined to put up with any of managements standard games. He's about my seniority, I like that and he's been furloughed so he understands those issues. I think we're lucky to have him in that job.

Good for him ... I'll give him all my support :D

Me too Mark. He's got his crap collected and I am behind him.

Well I think that everyone would agree that Fred's were some big shoes to fill...and I think that John G is definitely the man for the job. Excellent well written comm, very logical man, and I am proud that we have guys like that willing to step up on our behalf.

Bravo John !!

"Carryover. Now here’s an interesting subject that generates a lot of impassioned views, seniority dependent of course. Viewed with an addiction analogy, once someone gets hooked on the heroin-type high of continual Draft and Volunteer as the sole means to make it from one paycheck to the next, Carryover then becomes the methadone to deal with the absence of Volunteer and Draft. Is there something inherently wrong with Carryover? No, not in normal times, as it is the “sure” thing if you’re senior enough to hold it and want to subject yourself to continual work at straight time pay. However, when management maintains 686 jobs are in jeopardy and there’s an ongoing 12,000+CHs of Carryover per bid period, then in our committee’s world, we have a problem. We have an even more significant problem when management states their ambivalence to address Carryover while they lament their staffing level. Management does not want to stop Carryover, from their standpoint to do so would create inefficiencies in the system and cost money. There’s that “cost” word again..."



Does that clear up the carryover question for the really slow?

You misspelled "got his feces coagulated", but otherwise, I agree! ;)

Looks like the union and the company are in an all out war. Problem is, in this industry the company always wins (at least in the past few years). I think the company will inflict some casualties just to prove they are in charge, unless cooler heads show up from somewhere.

It was a good ride while it lasted.

I wonder if say4dew4 gets it now?

[QUOTE=MD10PLT;546912]Looks like the union and the company are in an all out war. Problem is, in this industry the company always wins (at least in the past few years). I think the company will inflict some casualties just to prove they are in charge, unless cooler heads show up from somewhere.

What, giving up the ship already? with that kind of 'tude the company has ALREADY won. Hang on dude, the fun is just beginning and (a collective) we are going to need everyone,including Foxdouche to win this.

As JG and the Negotiating Committee have implied, this has very little to do with staffing and everything to do with money. I'm sure PC and and the rest of the flight mgt dept were given an ultimatum to cut costs, and this furlough threat is what they came up with. Not very original, but they seem to think it will work. Just the fact that they rebuffed the union's mitigation offer speaks volumes of their arrogance.

I'm glad JG is letting us in on the whole process. I don't mind working with the company to cut costs (think fuel sense) but please don't lie to me and threaten a furlough just to take more money out of my pocket.

12% and 0%(more than 50 folks) Just me and I may be wrong, but I'd bet some cash I'm not.

Time to put blinders on and support the Union.

Nice update and much more eloquent and detailed explanation of what I was trying to say on the other thread about why we need to just keep quiet about our thoughts for a bit while waiting for the company's next salvo. Let them fish in silence.

Money, Money, Money.................Money
 

).

Beautiful that they included this document in the e-mail, absolutely beautiful.

Agreed. Up front and forthright. This leaves no doubt as to the company's intentions to extract economic gains from us via 4A2B.

I am sure they are not "happy" these documents were sent out for membership review.

Let the truth set you free.

Bravo JG! I am very pleased at the effort to keep the membership in the loop.

Well, after two bottles of $2 wine and now a $4 hangover (two buck Chuck). I'm feeling better and better about the way the union in taking care of my business.

You know lots of people questioned and opposed the war, but once troops hit the ground it was time for everyone to stop questioning and back the effort.

We, are now in the same situation here at FedEx. It's time to stop nitpicking the union and blindly (for a few months) back them and stick together.

Spread the word we are getting flimflammed for the almighty buck.

By the way I don't really blame our pilot management. I'm sure they are getting their marching orders from way above.

Which one, Oakland or Los Angeles layover?

Not giving up, but the bottom line is we are screwed and there is no way we can win.

We are already losing 30% of our pay, if the union fights this (and they are) the company will retaliate with a bump and flush realignment. Then we will either be losing pay due to reduced hours or reduced seat position, or both. Then if it looks like the union might win the grievance the company will just furlough 600 guys to prove they were right in the need to furlough.

The only ones who have a chance, are the top 40% in seniority, and they are running around openly advocating for a furlough, as witnessed at two ANC union meetings. This of course will cause a rip in the union if it happens. There is no way to support a union where the top 40% do not believe in the principles of UNION. So in the end we will have less pay and QOL, either by seat position or hours. The union will be fractured and all company loyalty will be gone.

The only possible hope we have is that someone way up high can see the damage this is causing to the company and steps in. I'm not holding my breath since this appears to be a battle of wills/egos.

BTW I think the union is doing the right thing. They not only need to stand up to the company but also the top 40% of the seniority list, if they have any hope of keeping the union united in the future. As much as I think we have very little hope in this, one can't just roll over and take it. Good job so far MEC.

Reserve utilization reaches 45% system wide not including December......

Now that's funny!

From the NC UPdate, I got the impression that JG thinks differently!

MD10PLT, You're kind of pi**ing me off. Where do you get off saying the top 40% of the seniority list wants a furlough? Just because a couple of senior guys in ANC make that noise? 40% of 4,000 pilots is 1,600. Do you really think more than a handful would really want that to happen. You serve no purpose in trying to singlehandedly divide the top and bottom half of the seniority list. If there was ever a time to stick together, it would be now. Try not to be a divider. It doesn't help.

MG2 (3%)

Oakland, but I carried as much as I could home. I love it!

Well, S. I hope you are wrong.

I don't know most of them, but there are one or two that I really respect and trust. For the one or two I know, I've always considered myself lucky they were the guys working for the company right now. But, like I said I only know one or two.

Mac I hope you're right because as a big union supporter I see the next year as a make or break moment for the union. As far as 1,600 guys advocating for a furlough I don't think that number is far off. I don't really think they are hoping for a furlough as much as they are willing to give up a junior guy to keep their pay. Call your union rep and ask him what kind of calls he's getting. And like I said, these guys are standing up at union meetings and saying the junior guys need to go, to be willing to say this openly speaks volumes. From my perspective, I have not flown with a Capt in the last year who did not advocate for a furlough. Their reasoning is; "that's just the way it is in this business".

BTW for you capt's out there, please stop saying this kind of stuff in the cockpit, it really doesn't help CRM.

[QUOTE=MD10PLT;547131]Mac I hope you're right because as a big union supporter I see the next year as a make or break moment for the union. As far as 1,600 guys advocating for a furlough I don't think that number is far off. I don't really think they are hoping for a furlough as much as they are willing to give up a junior guy to keep their pay. Call your union rep and ask him what kind of calls he's getting. And like I said, these guys are standing up at union meetings and saying the junior guys need to go, to be willing to say this openly speaks volumes. From my perspective, I have not flown with a Capt in the last year who did not advocate for a furlough. Their reasoning is; "that's just the way it is in this business".

BTW for you capt's out there, please stop saying this kind of stuff in the c
ockpit, it really doesn't help CRM.[/QUOT

You have obviously not flown with me in the past year. Your rhetoric about how we senior guys advocate a furlough is divisive and only serves to promote managements agenda. Please cut us some slack. I don't like the pay cut. I also don't want to see Rick or whatever his name is, out on the street.
Another poster said the union is in a war with management. In any war there will will be casualties. Are you willing to accept that yet? As for me, for now I'll take the pay cut, but... I won't freeze or sweat during preflight.

Oh, and by the way, I've flown with plenty of you senior FO's who advocate a furlough. Works both ways, doesn't it?
Now look at that sentence. Sounds divisive, doesn't it. Sorry.:)

as someone who is in that top 40% i don't want to see a furlough either....i actually enjoy the extra days off....but md10 is right we have no leverage here....the union has to be careful because if they win the grievance after the excess they will probably furlough....this is very complicated....as u may know i am not happy with the leadership right now so i have trouble blindly getting on the side of DW .....in my 14 yrs i feel i have been screwed once by the company with the optimizer which affected 2 months of flying and once by the union with DWs age 65 debacle which cost me 5 years of seniority....i think he may be trying to pump himself up fully knowing that we have no leverage here and then he leaves office on a hi note....then the next guy looks like the bad guy.......seriously everyone is getting all pumped up here....for what?....someone tell me what we can do?....where is our leverage?...it seems if we win the grievance the juniors guys are toast and if we lose the grievance the junior guys are toast also....bottom line is 42ab was a mistake....and of course we did it to ourselves by voting for and ratifying it!.....i would rather see both sides talk more...fix the carryover issue and keep everyone on the property....any thought guys?

I am with you. If the company and the union would simply agree to fix the carryover issue and limit our block hours that we are allowed to fly at straight time the problem would be solved. Instead ALPA has gone off on this greivance tangent which will not solve anything and only cause the company to furlough.

This is the part I don't get. The union put forth a very good proposal to mitigate the over-manning, which was a win-win proposal. The company shot it down cold. I can understand why they would not be willing to address early retirements, but the rest was very good. Clearly there must be something, we are not privy to, going on.

Not one of your better posts.

If the company does have a major excess...THEN they should be allowed to use 4.A.2.b. Why would they furlough, if we win the grievance? They unquestionably would be able to use 4.A.2.b., if their overmanning figures are correct.

Leverage? Some, in the 777 workrules, some in 4.A.2.b. are examples.

I would rather see both sides talking, as well. But, only if the company was willing to negoatiate in good faith. Not with the proverbial gun held to our heads.

I want my union leaders to stand up for my contract. And, I'm thankful that we have 4.A.2.b. in the contract, for the junior guys.

BTW...I'm in the top 20% of the seniority list.