Secondary Lines?
 

What is up? Just got my VTO for Feb and it's worth 58 hrs? What the heck? Can they do this? This is below RLG. Ridiculous!!

What airplane/seat? What was BLG?

That does sound very low. I'm a 727 Capt. w/VTO. Basic BLG was 65.50.

Refer to CBA 25.D.1.a-e, and 25.D.2.a-e. A couple things. The CBA allows for a 13 hour split between low and high line. The second section allows that VTOs be build with the same rules as regular lines, except that 'R' days may be used. Both stipulate CBA compliance, with min days off, 4-3-2, or 4-3-3-2 blocks of days off, etc. So, as long as your 58 hour BLG is within 13 hours of the high line, I'd say it's legal. As long as the Company is using 4.A.2.b to do their alleged manning mitigation exercise, I think we can expect just about anything.

On another note:

Can you trade a trip in Jan for a trip in Feb? I've got a trip this weekend with a little carryover and want to trade for a trip next weekend.

Thanks!

nope, all you can do is drop it (if you're lucky, the dreaded insufficient reserves!) and do a make up for the other. Of course you'll catch he!! on here for doing a make up though :rolleyes:

What base and seat??? How far down the Secondary list were you?

Sorry to hear, you can thank all the guys bidding carryover and NOT protecting Min Days....horrible! Time to start policing ourselves.

Scan through the first 10 or so MEM MD-11 secondary lines and take a look at all the guys that did had carry-over into Feb and did not protect min days off.

727 FO had lots of trips left after secondaries were built. Bad deal to have a secondary line with a low BLG when there were more trips left to give out. Company is gettting people to snag them out of open time and so those trips left in open time now are not included in BLG/RLG calculations which equals less RLG.

Huge loophole in the contract.

Interesting that the contract has 100 pages on retirements and veba and etc. for the senior that is well thought out but the furlough paragraph is a couple of sentences that don't make any sense.

MM....VTO.....60CH plus change for me

Md-11. Right Seat. 58:00 VTO.

Viper, you are so correct about all the verbiage regarding RETIREMENTS and VEBA ...................... Union recommended this CBA to the Crew Force and it was voted in ; next time I hope that we all step back before we jump in ; Just because it is recommended does not mean it is good for all of us. I have a big problem with the way it was all presented and promised ; half-truths will not be forgotten or forgiven ...................................

True, berry, berry true.

Don't forget, but I suggest you forgive going forward or at least understand what happens when any agreement is sent out of ratification with an endorsement. Typically MEC's, make 2 votes-one to accept the agreement and send it out for ratification and one on whether or not they should send it out with an endorsement. MEC's tend to want to put out a message of unity within their ranks, so the 2 votes are rarely mentioned or explained to the membership. It's rarely an issue for MEC's unless you have something like the FDA LOA where there is a dissenting vote. In that case, all that is required is a written con statement from the opposition. There is absolutely no other requirement beyond that for the MEC/MC/NC to talk about any of the potential negatives in any deal, only why they feel that it should be ratified. In fact I've heard theory before that actively presenting the negatives of a potential deal could be considered not fulfilling the duties and responsibilities of their elected position leading to charges, etc. That's bs imo, but it has been used by MC's at other carriers to get the people presenting at roadshows to toe the line. The bottom line for us line swine is that we have to understand how the ratification process works, ask questions, think, ask some more questions and make an informed decision. You simply cannot rely solely on roadshow advice to make that decision, but in general it's the nature of the system/bylaws that makes it that way not the officials involved.

Do you want to fight?;)

I don't care what skirts they hide behind nothing excuses the joint Company/MEC dog and pony shows pushing the LOAs. Luckily many of those involved are gone and the head pimp is on the way out.

New rule. ALWAYS vote down the first TA!

Old contract had a 8 hour split between low and high line. Someone correct me if I am wrong. This contract was and is now clearly evident a piece of $H@#.

You sir are correct... POS.. Wish I read and understood the TA better!

Hour splits, optimizer, higher health care premiums, training conflicts, VEBA, the list goes on!

A300 F/O - 64:45 on a VTO.