[QUOTE=rjlavender]"In other words, pay your dues or shut up."

Yes, Bob this is very good advice. Don't bother walking into a VP's office and speaking for me on an issue. I think I will stick with my ALPA negotiating committee instead of some hair brain who thinks he is better than the rest of us. If you have something to say I will listen after you pay your dues. The long and the short of it is Bob, you are cheap. You will be the first to come crying to ALPA and the FedEx crewforce to get your job back if you ever #$%@ something up and get fired. We have all seen it before Bob.

[QUOTE=FR8Hauler]I want to thank Bob for trying to discuss the issue with a VP. Again ALPA is stuck behind it's own curve. Tell me why we voted ALPA back in in the first place. If I recall it was because ALPA had deep pockets, actually ALPA thanks Fedex pilots for having deep pockets. We were told how being part of a National union would give us such a great advantage over our independant FPA. The sad fact is that ALPA was weak and ineffective six years ago and in a far worse condition today. The only good contract signed by ALPA in recent times is for the ALPA employees, not ALPA members.:(

Prior to having a union I believe one pilot was fired, and stayed fired. With the union protection I've lost count.:rolleyes:

ALPA does do some fine work but they are mired in the muck of the past. They have failed to adapt to a very fast changing world and face a very bleak future.

[QUOTE=FoxHunter]Please FOX or should I say George?

Where do I begin.

ALPA is only as strong as the membership support.

You blame the poor concessionary contracts on ALPA.
I remember one of your previous posts about striking.....or in your case "Not striking". For us to get a good contract it is looking, unfortunately, like we are going to have to proceed down that path.

What conditions would the pilots at Northwest, Delta and United, USAIr be working under NOW if they didn't have ALPA?

ALPA has nothing to do with a company's profitability that's MGT's job.

As Far as FDX ALPA goes
Actually the FDX MEC has basically the same leadership as the OLD FPA, but,
The entire office and leadership is far better organized then it was under FPA.

I serve on a couple committees. I have attended a couple ALPA schools. I served on the same FPA committees too.
Trust me we are better off.

If you don't like them or what your elected leaders are doing then do something about it...........get a resolution going for recall and assuming you aren't in the minority get them tossed......and then put yourself on a Ballot........we will see how well you do.

You don't think the firings had anything to do with Unionizing? Please George, I mean Foxhunter. Just look what is happen at FedEx ground. They are firing folks left and right if they appear to support any unionizing efforts.
Are you really saying the company has no fault in this??

A mind is a terrible thing to waste
 

[QUOTE=FoxHunter]So who (still) needs a reason to keep the age 60 rule?;) FoxHunter, who if true is an MD-11 capt, it would also be true he was here during the infamous "parking lot fiasco" under the previous union. Possibly Foxhunter can't remember (due to the aging process, we are all, ultimately victims of it :eek: ) Just to refresh, when we voted ALPA out, to vote in our independent union, we were all told how we would have "interest based bargaining", I just can't recall our interests ever being considered. Oh by the way, your friend and former FPA officer, Capt Cassel says "hello" and drop by some time. ;)

[QUOTE=RedeyeAV8r]True statement, but to achieve this you need leadership that can adapt to changing conditions. ALPA has failed to do this.

The ALPA President has signed them. For us, please define a good contract. You may make noise about striking, ALPA will not let that happen. They may not like it but they know they can't afford it.

Probably a little better than SWA is today without ALPA or FedEx with is working under a non-ALPA contract which has much of the FCH from pre-union days.

Again correct, in part. One only has to look a UAL's summer of 2000 where a ALPA job action put profits into a tailspin, weak management signed off on a contract the company could not afford.


Correct again, sort of.:rolleyes: The union leadership ran for office with the intent of bringing ALPA back. The first thing they did was to raise the dues to the ALPA level. I've listed some of the reasons the leadership gave to bring ALPA back. It all sounded good, now there seems to be a growing level of desperation because it has not happened.



FedEx has never fired or attempted to fire any pilot for union activity. The fact is that there have been a fair number of pilot fired for various other reasons since receiving union protection.

[QUOTE=dckozak]Hi Don. I have both my memory and my hair. Yes I agree that the parking lot deal would not happen now with ALPA. I would expect the same type of deal but ALPA would rent the Ballroom at the Peabody Hotel, call a news conferance, and announce the good deal.

[QUOTE=FoxHunter]Foxhunter, I have to admit you are humorous! Terribly misguide and bitter but humorous.:)

The past is not the present
 

Some FedEx pilots seem to feel that we either aren’t worthy or are to stupid to negotiate our own contract. The same pilots (having either never served or, if they did serve, were voted out or left on their own) look down on the elected (union) leadership as if they were either a bunch of bumbling fools, tools of management, or conniving individuals working to foster there own self enrichment or agenda.
Some pilots, having been so bruised by their previous employers, feel that any improvement over their previous experience is deserving of total repudiation of the negotiated process and feel (we) should either be grateful for what we have and not rock the boat (biting the hand that feed them, if you will).
Some former Seaboard World pilots are a classic example of this phenomena. Having worked for a small and often, struggling east coast cargo carrier, Seaboard World pilots were, from a pay, work rule, and benefits stand point, not only behind the passengers carriers of their day but also it’s chief competitive nemesis, Flying Tigers. When Tigers purchased Seaboard World in the late 70’s ,Seaboard pilots , represented by ALPA, received (in their estimation) a hosing on the seniority integration at the hand of their ALPA breathen at Flying Tigers. Many junior Seaboard wound up on the street as FTL, having run its self into trouble, continued its steady decline predating its merger with Seaboard.
Pilots, as they have been wanton to do , blame each other for how a diminishing pie is divided, so many Seaboard World pilots blame ALPA (either their own unit, for failing to negotiate a better seniority or the Tiger ALPA, for hosing them). Fast forward 8 years and Tigers, on the brink of bankruptcy (or using the threat as a negotiating hammer, depending on who’s side you believe). Renegotiated a pay cut, which many ALPA pilots (former Seaboard and old Tigers) believe was a capitulation .
Federal Express comes along late in 1988 and makes an offer to buy Flying Tigers. Everybody wins, FedEx gets the coveted Asian routes of Tigers, Tiger pilots, bought by a company with a better (by comparison) wage, work rule, and benefit package, wins; Tiger shareholders make money (especially if you bought right before November 86‘. The only ones who thought they lost were the (old) purple pilots who in time would find that the promises made about seniority integration would not be the windfall many had assumed.
With the integration of the unionized Tiger pilots with non union Federal Express pilots, a vote would be necessary to determine who, if anyone, would represent the unified Federal pilot force. Without digressing to far from the point of this post, different pilots, from different (former) employers saw union representation in different lights. Some Seaboard World pilots, still bitter about how they were treated at the hands of Tigers/Tiger ALPA saw nothing good in the former pattern of dealing with their employers, either Seaboard or their more recent bosses FTL. ALPA was equally if not more to blame for the injustice inflicted upon them, and the FedEx way of non-confrontational (interest based?? :rolleyes: ) dealings seemed to (have) offered a superior product.
Jump forward 17 years and the same mindset that formulated from a sour merger over 25 years ago, still reverberates to this day. Its interesting how pilots are apt to blame each other for the misfortunes of their company or industry. Seaboard World and Flying Tigers, both early pioneers in the cargo industry failed to change with the times as different business models for the movement of freight came on the horizon. (Just as (9/11, anti union government sediment and poor business practices of the legacy airlines is the fault of the unions representing the workers). Oh course they we’re the only ones to dismiss overnight freight as a nitch play not worth pursuing .UPS ignored FedEx until it was too late to use their superior market share/wealth to crush what was a small, insignificant player in the package delivery business.
To sum up. Don’t blame your union for past failings (in your opinion), support the process. If your too cheap or got a issue with unions that you can’t overcome, at least be smart enough to stay on the sidelines, let the vast majority who support the negotiated process and pay for it, do their job. Just sit back and reap the benefits of the system you won't/can't/don’t support. We need all pilots to let the process work its self out. Unless you want an undesirable confrontation in which you will be obliged to take a stand, :confused: don’t do anything to undermine the very people who are working to improve all our lot.

Outstanding Post dckozak!
 

:cool:

FoxHunter (aka Mr. G. Conway) is unable to appreciate the candor and validity of your outstanding post. Expect some lame-a$$ response as per usual.

Your sophomoric run is over George. Your opinions, observations, sarcastic diatribes, and useless opines have run their course. After you screw yourself down from the ceiling, have a look around at all the people who care. See anyone yet George? Keep looking ...

RIP Mr. Tool

NKA

Koolaid, are you for real? Tell me this is all an act. It's scary to think someone like you is allowed in the cockpit. Which A/C are you on so I can avoid your jumpseat.