Lester Burnham

I'm a litte confused about some of the speculation about the upcoming dispacement bid at UPS. It seems that everyone is assuming the junior 74Y and M11 ANC FOs will be displaced to the panel. I don't see how this is possible or likely. The company actually awarded about 7 more ANC 74Y FO awards than they had original and recurring vacancies, which included the most junior pilot in the company. From a company standpoint it makes sense: all the junior FEs will most likely be heading to ANC when the DC-8 goes away, so why not let them bid up there and save the moving costs. Sure the 74Y FO list will be pretty fat, but as the 767s come online, that list will take a lot of vacancies in the lower 48 and their replacements will already be trained. Plus why would they award more positions than they had to if they were sending everyone back to the panel?

Roberto explained in a previous thread that it would be impossible to displace the bottom FE's to ANC since the FE seat had the most junior pilot on the list, and you need someone junior to you in order to displace. Now that ANC 74Y is the most junior seat in the company, how is it possible to displace out of that seat? The only way the company did that on the last bid was that these people were on probation and could be placed wherever UPS wanted them.

The only way I could see it possible would be by following the guidance under Insufficient Bids on p. 320 of the contract. That allows the company to fill vacancies by inverse seniority if there aren't enough bidders for a seat. However, if they needed to fill a vacancy on the DC8 FE, why allow more FEs bid off than were required.....and wouldn't these vacancies need to be filled on a vacancy bid, not a displacement bid?

If my thinking is correct, the only additional people coming to the panel would be the junior FOs in the lower 48 who choose the FE over ANC. This would still leave plenty of DC-8 FEs (staffing would be similar to the other seats) and save the company a ton of moving expenses. I'm by no means an expert, and have probably overlooked something. If I'm missing something here, please chime in....

b2pilot186

He can't displace someone but he can be displaced by someone else senior to him who wants a window seat instead of the panel.

B2P

Lester Burnham

B2,

I agree that he'd be "displaced" by someone senior to him, but where does he go? Looking at the contract, there is no language that says you can displace into a seat when you have no one junior to you. The only option I see is to stay on the 74Y FO or furlough. Since the company has stated no furloughs, it would seem he'd stay on the 74Y.

Roberto

Very interesting!

I am passing on the number crunching and analysis to you, and here are some numbers to start you off.

The bottom 50 pilots (2857-2906):
747 – 24
ANC MD – 9
DC8 – 17

The bottom 108 pilots (2799-2906):
747 – 54
ANC MD – 32
DC8 – 22

The next 100 (2699-2798):
747 – 39
ANC MD – 45
DC8 – 0
A300 – 12
SDFZ – 3
ONT – 1

Only 22 of the bottom 208 pilots are FE's... actually, after 2799, you have to go all the way to 2241 for the next most junior FE.

Roberto

It seems to me if any of the FE's remaining wanted a window seat, they could have had one, as the junior pilot got a 747 FO award...

b2pilot186

Wow...you're right. So if there's no place for the junior guy to go it seems like he can't be displaced...?

My head hurts again...and this time I absolutely refuse to dive back into the contract to find my own answer. (I was wrong when I looked stuff up last time anyway.)

I'll wait until Roberto or some other smart guy actually chimes in and does the number/contract thing for me...This stuff is too damn complicated.

B2P

Roberto

It's given me a headache also. Lester, how about talking to Manpower Planning about this and letting us know what they say. I'm pretty sure they read this forum anyway, so they should be ready for you. The easiest way to call them is to call on ATLAS and then dial 350 and their extension (in the schedule bid books).

Section Eight

All of this is giving everyone a headache I think, good news on LL bean, buddy down the road in MEM says we stole that from them...

Luckydawg

I thought the only way to go back to FE was to be displaced to FE. In the displacement bid can an FO bidding FE actually be awarded it?

Roberto, this is your quote from before.

"I think the number of additional FO's that end up as FE's after the displacement will about equal the number of senior FE's who receive bid awards. I think this number will be about 30 or so.

From the Realignment Vacancy Bid, a lot of junior FE's will receive FO awards. That could be deceiving. After the Displacement Bid, because of their juniority, they will be displaced right back to the FE seat, along with those additional FO's replacing the senior FE's who left.

Some CPT/FO's in SDF may choose downgrade over ANC, which will decrease the ANC numbers displaced."

If this is the way it works, the only openings are DC8 FE's when you get to the most junior FO's, then we have about 72 heading that way via displacement. UPS chose to draw down the CPT and FO positions but not the panel, therefore there are still 143 positions. I know of several that would rather bid it because they are sick of the commute, I hope they are awarded.

Section Eight

YES! If you are displaced and wish to bid FE then you can versus going to ANC. That comes straight from MP, but only if you are displaced, so if you have the FE bid ahead of ANC, it should be awarded.