brownie

Just got done reading bob's hot line and he seems to think that 99% of furlough talks are taking care off and now the ball is in ups's court then i read chief pilots hot line which says similar things minus the fact he states that there are significant issues to be worked out which doesn't sounds like 99% and if you read the CP hotline carefully it seems no matter what happens they will furlough and maybe not 300 but they will. Hate to sound pessemistic but reading the hotline is not giving me very fuzzy feeling.

captch11

YouTube - "I've Got A Bad Feeling About This!"

Spider senses tingling... heard this fecal diatribe before...

must... update... logbook... must... update... resumé

757upspilot

The hotline was carefully crafted to make you uncertain and hopefully cause some of the membership to press the union to give the company contract concessions that they desire. If you have ever spoken to Barnes you know that he couldn't have put that together by himself, pure Coleman directed output.

SaltyDog

I agree, written by Labor and signed by J.
Really what it says is that the IPA won't do contract concessions and UPS is going to try one more time.
Oh, and in a show of compassion, the cut and paste about Craig, IMO, should have been first. Sad revelation that was unintended I'm sure.

Sideshow Bob

I maintain that at best, any "savings" we give the company may (and I emphasize may) delay a furlough so as to kick in AFTER peak, but if they have indeed decided to furlough they are going to do so no matter what we "give". One of the pathetic things about this place is that anyone on the line for more than one bid period could give them a laundry list of operational changes that when combined with the other 2,999 or so line pilot laundry lists would save them over $100 million a year (and that's likely on the low side). In the last couple of months for example I had tech stops in KIX on the HKG-ANC segment where based on HKG payload we could have skipped KIX and had ample reserves. I actually got on the SAT phone to dispatch in the blocks in HKG, who (seemingly painfully) talked with contingency who confirmed that we had up and/or downlift at KIX and that we needed to stop. In both cases, not one cargo door was cracked in KIX. Urban legend has it that the landing fee at KIX is $15,000, not to mention the added burn, the extra cycle on the airframe and the potential for an MD11 to be an MD11 and break in KIX. Add up the "savings" that could be reaped system-wide by eliminating this kind of buffoonery and there you have it...

Yet, we all know that this isn't one company with a common goal of making money, but a loosely bound galaxy of independent fiefdoms each almost entirely consumed with their own independent departmental "goals" desperately trying to protect their turf and maintain "control".

But we all know in this case it's not really about the money, but about opening a contract to this, and subsequent guttings because the company knows that in all likelihood the economy will have improved by contract openers in 2012, and how nice to have us waste negotiating leverage to get back to where we once were.

liftr92

they're going to furlough the question should be how many for how long and how many new hire managers will they hire.

757upspilot

I have to agree with your last paragraph. Its very sad that the company is chosing to use the lives of our junior pilots and of their employees against other employees. We have given them a viable plan that it appears they are going to ignore and/or marginalize.
So now we move to the phase to support our people that the company puts on the street.

freightretriever

Hey guys news flash. They are going to kick 100-150 of us to the street. The union gets to beat its chest that they “saved” jobs the company gets the reduced staffing they were looking for. Open time ban? We will see how well that is followed. If we are lucky (not holding my breath) the IPA might cover some cobra benefits. Thanks for playing. But on the flip side the guy I just flew with just bought a really nice 6th car – another really sharp BMW. I will let you figure out what part of the pilot demographics he falls into. Some guys catch all the breaks

congowings

The information from the chief pilot’s hotline was so predictable it disappoints. No effort to veil the intent of dividing this group was employed. It was like reading from “Negotiations 101”.

“As a matter of good business practice, we have had to adjust our flexible network to meet customer demands. Ultimately, this has resulted in reduced flying and an overstaffing of crewmembers.” - JB

Negotiations 101 – ‘Show that it is a lack of ability, not lack of desire, that leads you to refuse them. Showing that you cannot fulfill a request is a good way of refusing, as the other person then cannot persist. In dealing with such tactics, the first decision you must make is whether it is a tactic or a genuine situation. If it is genuine, you have a problem to solve, rather than a tactic to overcome. If the objection is genuine, you must try to look for an alternative that meets your needs as well as theirs.’

So, if the objective of the company is to cut $54M from the air division budget & they decide against IPA’s suggestions - then it can be argued that their real intent was never the amount, but the desire to renegotiate the contract.

“Rather than proceed directly with a furlough, we invited the IPA to discuss cost saving alternatives that would help us mitigate the need for furloughs and minimize the impact to our people. While some have possibilities, several of their proposed measures are not viable. For example, the union’s retirement proposal appears on the surface to result in significant cost savings. However it does not account for all costs associated with an early retirement package. We would like to reach an agreement with union leadership so that our proposals can be presented to crewmembers & we can determine exactly how many people are willing and able to volunteer. Only after we get that number can we work with the union on a final determination about the true cost savings from the volunteer programs.” - JB

This statement neatly covers two tactics: 1) ‘Positional power: using tactics to pressure you to negotiate against yourself, make unneeded concessions, or even give concessions after the negotiation has concluded. These tactics are employed to position the other party into negotiating with themselves. Placing the other party into a position where they are the ones making concessions, many times unnecessarily. AND 2) ‘In extreme cases the company may direct management to play one group of employees against another to generate disunity (e.g. one department against another, etc.).’ Or in our case, junior/young versus senior/old.

The fact that the company is using the threat of furlough brings into play the popular tactic: Stress & Confusion: 1) ‘Increasing stress leads to a point when we go from seeking the best solution to the problem at hand to seeking a solution just to reduce the stress. Herbert Simon called this 'Satisficing'.’ AND 2) ‘Confusion is used in many persuasion techniques as a way of destabilizing the other person. There are many written and unwritten rules of conversation and interpersonal communication. People expect you to follow those rules. If you break them, they will quickly become confused. So manage the other person's sense of control by changing those things that make them certain, able to understand and predict the things around them. This can be done by making things uncertain and inconsistent.’

While I do think it is believable UPS is slightly overstaffed at the moment, especially considering the fleet being flown by management - it is a stretch to imagine that the air division would run smoothly come peak without the present numbers, especially if the economy begins to turn around. But it wouldn’t be the first time UPS was behind the power curve.

One line stood out the most: “While the well-being of our employees is paramount . . .” - JB

Considering the source, it would be laughable if it wasn‘t so sad. So remember, tactics work, but once they are recognized as tactics, their effects are reduced, or eliminated.

UPSFO4LIFE

When I read it all I saw was We are going to furlough, we are going to furlough, we are going to furlough, we are going to furlough, we don't care what savings you have found, we are going to furlough, we are going to furlough, you could have found 200 million in savings, we are going to furlough, we are going to furlough, take consessions, we Might not furlough now, but we are going to furlough.

This place is sooooooooooooo predictable it is sad. It is also sad to work for such a crappy employer as well.

Guys, I also believe they are going to furlough and with that, I now think the Union is wasting their time even trying to deal with these fools.