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-   -   Political group does a 180 on FDX for UPS (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/42162-political-group-does-180-fdx-ups.html)

Soyathink 10-03-2009 04:00 AM

With the way Fred treats the ground guys, they need to unionize. Some of you FDX guys posted on here bashing UPS, look at Brown Bailout. It is a bunch of misinformation. The playing field is not level. The ground side of FDX, the drivers make squat and get treated like dirt. They need a union. What is really funny is FDX has this edge on UPS and UPS is still more profitable. How does that happen? UPS Employees working together. It's pretty disturbing seeing FDX union pilots not supporting your own team on the ground.

OffRoad5150 10-03-2009 04:26 AM

"Disturbing" - did you happen to ask any Fedex ramp workers why they don't want to unionize? Please let us know when you do.

Also, if things are so great with your pilot group why isn't the "share fly" concession agreement mandatory for all IPA pilots? No shared sacrifice - only a volunteer program with what % participating? Not 100%. "UPS employees working together" - some - not all is more accurate.

Sluggo_63 10-03-2009 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soyathink (Post 688346)
With the way Fred treats the ground guys, they need to unionize. Some of you FDX guys posted on here bashing UPS, look at Brown Bailout. It is a bunch of misinformation. The playing field is not level. The ground side of FDX, the drivers make squat and get treated like dirt. They need a union. What is really funny is FDX has this edge on UPS and UPS is still more profitable. How does that happen? UPS Employees working together. It's pretty disturbing seeing FDX union pilots not supporting your own team on the ground.

If you're talking about FedEx Ground drivers, they can unionize, and I support them. In fact, they even can unionize under the NLRA. Nothing is stopping them, except maybe their own hesitance to be a Teamster.

AerisArmis 10-03-2009 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soyathink (Post 688346)
The playing field is not level.

Seems to be a recurring theme amongst many of you. Almost seems like someone from Brown manglement fed you that line.
Here's the deal. Any employee group at FedEx is free to unionize any time they want as long as the majority of their class and craft agrees. That's it. They can do it any time they can get 50% +1. If any other group chooses to do so, I'm sure our MEC and the rest of the pilot group would support them. If they CHOOSE to! Nice to see you throw out misinformation while complaining about misinformation.

Sideshow Bob 10-03-2009 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AerisArmis (Post 688354)
Seems to be a recurring theme amongst many of you. Almost seems like someone from Brown manglement fed you that line.
Here's the deal. Any employee group at FedEx is free to unionize any time they want as long as the majority of their class and craft agrees. That's it. They can do it any time they can get 50% +1. If any other group chooses to do so, I'm sure our MEC and the rest of the pilot group would support them. If they CHOOSE to! Nice to see you throw out misinformation while complaining about misinformation.

Actually Fred is doling out more than his share of misinformation if you're the least bit honest about it. Calling it a "bailout" while playing on the room temperature IQ types is ridiculous, as UPS isn't getting taxpayer dollars which, if you didn't know, is the definition of a bailout and Fred knows it too. Call it what it is...sleazy political opportunism on UPS' part...they are the masters of it. But Fred threatening to cancel 777 orders is also political opportunism, and more than a little toddler-like. Funny thing is very, very few of us look up to or even remotely like UPS management, while many of your gang get a bit emotional and very defensive when Fred isn't glorified by those who don't work for him...very odd.

In principle however I agree with you...if they want to organize they can, but it's effectively a moot point as first they all know that they'll be harassed and likely fired in a tough job market. They're just going to have to buck up and take it, as I have a hunch this thing isn't going to happen anyway.

OffRoad5150 10-03-2009 02:47 PM

Sideshow Bob,

FWIW, over the years a lot of pilots continue to be impressed with Fred Smith's vision, business skills or mojo (whatever you want to call it) but to say they "glorify him" is wrong. The "red letter" was the turning point.

My impression is that most FedEx pilots don't care for him on a personal level, I'm sure management feels the same way toward the pilots.

Jetjok 10-03-2009 07:38 PM

Normy,

Good stories and for the most part, points well taken..... Except for your last paragraph, which I don't necessarily agree with. It's not that I don't believe that having ALPA on the property is a very good thing, because I do. It's just that I don't believe that FedEx would intentionally put anyone into an "interesting situation", especially like the ones that you addressed in your post. The possible exception would be sleep related, or should I say, lack of preparedness for flight and the company demanding you operate the trip. As for the mechanical issues, for the 17 or so years I flew at FedEx, I never experienced anyone demanding that the flight crew operate a jet (with a mechanical issue or suspect system.) And I should add, a few of those years were prior to either the FPA or ALPA. I'm not saying that that never happened, just that I never witnessed it.

JJ

say that again 10-04-2009 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Normy! (Post 688707)
Well said, sir~

I cannot believe it, but in the course of my duties I've actually heard a Fedex pilot say "one bullet...all it would have taken is one stray bullet in Vietnam and we wouldn't have to put up with Fred his attitude toward us"

My blood boiled; somehow I kept myself under control. Silly stupid spoiled pilot!

I've worked at 6 airlines. I've been "told" to fly a 727 with oil pouring out of its engine, with the threat of termination if I didn't. I worked at one place where I was pulling out the QRH every other week....while I flew planes 18 months old [NO maintenance on these DHC-8's], and one time I called fatigued after being awake for 24 hours; I hung up my cellphone and went to the hotel. 9 hours later, I called the company to see if I was still employed. I was, but that was only because they needed a 727 captain for reserve at the hub. Then one day when I was flying 747's...I flew to Liege, went to the hotel, ate dinner...and when I was back, I had a call from the company:

"We need you to ferry the airplane back to Newark. The outbound crew had smoke in the cockpit on takeoff, and the mechanics couldn't find anything wrong. When can you be there?"

hello. :eek:

I see...your airplane wants to catch on fire, and one crew rejects it. Your response is to try to give it to another captain?

[Here's my long-winded point: HOW often does this sort of thing occur at Fedex?]

I refused. I told them that I was going to bed, and that I would take the airplane at 0800 the next day, do a full-power run-up [which is really not a good idea on the 747...but I did it anyway!], and then attempt to ferry the airplane back to New Jersey if no smoke or smell came into the cockpit.

-Listen folks; we have it WAY GOOD HERE! Fedex treats us very well. We never are forced into a situation where we have to choose between our job or our life. That may sound simple, but that is the world outside of big purple and big brown.

Fred Smith? He knows how to build a business, but if we didn't have ALPA right here to protect us, you can bet that eventually every one of you would be put into one of the "interesting" situations that I've posted above. We can't let them get one single micrometer on us during contract talks, since if we do that micrometer will turn into 496 miles....but DO realize how good you have it, and how BAD the industry actually is.

N!

Say what you want about Fred Smith, but I owe my job at UPS to Mr. Smith's foresight. After all, if FedEx hadn't done it, rest assured UPS would never have tried it first.

MeXC 10-04-2009 06:34 AM

I enjoy level-headed responses on APC, though they do surprise me.


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