UPS- Polar route this weekend
 

UPS will operate a "proving run" this weekend on a polar route. Long flight, will need double crews and double the catering.

15+ plus hours with SDF catering ... :eek:

Pardon my domestic ignorance. When you have a double crew on a long flight like this do you just have 4, or is there an IRO, or are there 2 IROs?

WW

Normally anything over eight hours of scheduled flight, two man crew plus an IRO. Anything over twelve hours, two crews plus rest facilities on the aircraft. Certain airlines have negotiated their own rest/crew rules for certain flights.

This flight will be operated my management.....FWIW

FedEx line crews fly polar routes routinely (have done 3 myself) ... why is it a management function at Ooooops?

Testing and certification phase, the droogs will pick it up eventually.:)

Yes, but what about that catering?? :)

There will be one IPA pilot onboard as well.

That is one of the test parameters-can humans survive for that length of time on SDF catering without permanent physiological damage?

What kind of aircraft will they use for the trip? Is it going from SDF to where?

UPS should of requested sponsorship for the coffee to be carried on board. Starbucks, Mickie D's or Dunkin would of payed a few bucks for bragging rights.

That's an odd response. Is he/she there to serve it...Or is he/she the meal?

Folks...

The IPA pilot is there to make sure the flight gets there ok....you know, adult supervision...

Pilot7576

If they were smart, then they would bring their own....:D

The DC-8-NG

at UPS a double crew may be 1 Capt and 3 F/O's or 2 Capts n 2 F/O's

While the contract may allow this, has the FAA signed off on that yet? I was under the impression that there must be two signatures on the release and our IRO's haven't had a line check allowing them to act as PIC.

I had never heard that, I don't know

Ditto ...

I'm sure there is an MRB in the works !

FedEx does this BOTH ways (2 capts/2 f/o's and 1 Capt/3 f/o's). I've never heard or seen of the requirement for a second signature. The Captain designated on the release is responsible for the entire flight (even when he's in the rack). Of course all of our MD-11 f/o's have type ratings ...

Regards ... Mark

Thanks for clearing that up.

FAA does allow this and NWA did it up to Sep 09

Is it something they allow right away with the polar authorization ? Or is it phased in like Cat 3 ops to new operations ? Just curious what may be on the horizon ...

The polar flight will not be this weekend. It will operate on the 24th of August SDF-HKG. The BCF will be used for the flight. As of now there are no plans to operate polar flights on a regular basis. This is proving and certification flight with the FAA on board. The polar route will only be used as a contingency operation in case of Mt Redoubt eruption or other events that disrupt the Anchorage operations!!

Other events? Such as the FedEx 777 flying overhead?

Furthermore, has there ever been a volcano induced certifying event in the history of the FAA, other than "Don't fly near there"?


At issue is how will this affect crew planning?

I don't see a good thing about it. What used to be two crews to get a plane to Asia, with a layover in ANC (change of crew there) is now two crews without the layover; in other words better productivity for the Co over a two week paining.

The hits keep coming

I wouldn't sweat it...they only got 12 747-400s....the rest of the long-haul stuff aint' got the range for that. The way things are going..I'd be more worried of them parking the -400s than the 2 crews thing.

Correct, second sig...no. Type rating on the flight deck....required to be in the seat....yes. (FAA)

Even though the 747-400 has (barely) the range for SDF-HKG, you definitely will not be carrying much cargo. I am sure that cost on a ton/mile basis would go thru the roof.

Joe

It may have something to do with the 777 at Fedex as well as contingency ops.

The cost would go up considerably since you cannot carry much other than fuel on a 744. The 777 can carry fuel and payload the distance. Otherwise the 400 would have been doing this long ago. Ever notice all the 400 operators in ANC?? The 747-800 has better numbers than the 400 but nothing like the 777.

IMO: If Fedex starts operating MEM-Asia somewhere (which I am sure is the plan) the guarantee time for delivery will force UPS to make some purchase changes (remember the 380?? We never replaced it. The 400 was for the classic). Could get interesting if the economy heats up and the planets align properly!!

I would not mind seeing the 777 at UPS. As far as manning goes. If we start flying polar operations it will increase manning requirements. Two flights a month and you would be finished. 15:30 or so each way. 31 hours x 2=62. Maybe a SDF - ANC stuffer for an extra 12 to get the 75 but that is it. This would be 2 crews as well. Not much wiggle room for crew scheduling.

Ever talk to anyone at a legacy that flies the 777. 2 Round trips a month and that is it. Dont even get them started on Vacation, Carry-in, "strategic bidding"......they get all excited. 15+ hours on an airplane (not in first class) YIKES!!!!

So I think the Polar ops are a good thing. More pilots, no DH's on these flights....Just my humble opinion.:D

I usually do polar flights (IAD-PEK) and other high latitude, great circle type flights (IAD-NRT, DXB-IAD, FRA-SFO, etc. )flights: LOVE THEM! They are our most senior trips.

Usually 50 hours away from base with a flight time of 27+ hours. 2 relief pilots means the flight is broken up in half for breaks. ATC is very slow paced and the layovers are just long enough to get a pop, get some rest and do a little sightseeing. Some trips are even timed in such a way they are mostly on the front side of the body clock.

We do three a month. 81 hours pay, about 150 hours away from base. Highly civilized flying and as I said it is our most senior flying.

Thanks Greg,
I actually hope to see this type of flying at UPS. I think it will go senior here even if there is no $$$ incentive (one pay scale).

Most guys/gals that I have spoken to about this type of flying really love it.

JUP

Curious as to when you did this last. I haven't seen a polar route in the bid pack in over 3 years.

Anyone heard if it went smoothly?

The geographical North and South poles will be moved accordingly to UPS's needs... There should be a Must Read Bulletin coming out any day now... ;)

Ha ha ha....amen to that!

Anybody check out some of those emergency divert airfields? Or should I say "alert strips?" It should be interesting landing a 747-400 on a 5500 ft gravel runway, should an emergency dictate. Are there any Boeing "hotels" or "landmarks" in those fields that anyone knows about???

Better to plow gravel than swim.:)

Where are those strips located? Alaska or in Rossija? :confused:

Why don't those fields go right into the Jepp bricks?