Sick Leave Question
 

I was sick three days (Dec 20, 21, 22). The company wants a note...which I can give...but what is the policy? This is my third call of the year and my last call was in the spring. The email from the company quoted section 14.A.6.b

From the Alpa Website


Sick Leave Abuse: It is hard to call this a hot topic since hot seems to be a permanent state. Nonetheless, we have seen the Company move toward a more organized system by which to identify “sick leave abuse.” Most recently, we have seen the Company demand production of physician’s statement because a pilot exceeded an arbitrary number of sick calls in a rolling 12 month period. Contractually, this demand is only permitted where the Company has a “good faith and objective reason to question a pilot’s use or attempted use of sick leave.” When confronted by the Association, the Company relented, but we expect further encroachments as Team Americas leadership has a definite dislike for pilots who get sick. Your Role: We can only confront that which we know. If you are contacted by the Company regarding sick leave usage, assert your right to representation and immediately contact us.

Thanks. I intend to call this in tomorrow but was wondering tonight what the opinions were out there. I thought it was 'over' a holiday, not near one.

one day either side, i would call Grievance Chair and he can explain the history. The 22nd may be questionable.

Did any of those trips you called in sick for "touch" Xmas Eve or Xmas day?:confused:

No........

I just re-read that section of the contract, and it doesn't mention "near" a holiday. So that harassment is total B.S.:mad: Call the Union ASAP!

I actually read it before I called in sick and figured nothing was required...go figure

Call the Union, if you are "not fit to fly" and being harassed by the company.

The FAR's say this on fitness for flight:

Sec. 61.53 - Prohibition on operations during medical deficiency.
(a) Operations that require a medical certificate. Except as provided for in paragraph (b) of this section, a person who holds a current medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter shall not act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember, while that person:
(1) Knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation, etc.

No where does it say you have to have a doctor certify that you don't feel fit for flight. It could be a bad headache, an upset stomach, or some other short-term illness that does not require a visit to a doctor unless it persisted for some time.
The company requiring you to go get a doctor's note, when you would not normally go to the doctor, is pure harassment. You alone have the ultimate responsibility for deciding if you are fit for duty, period. Call the union!

P.S. Questions about FAR's? Look it up at: http://www.risingup.com/fars/

The email was not harassing. It just stated that "in accordance with the contract...yada yada...please provide a letter from your physician......."

Do they have some reason to doubt you? Again, the contract reads:

6. The Company may require a pilot to provide the System Chief Pilot’s designee with a written statement from the pilot's physician explaining his inability to perform his assigned duties because of illness or injury if:
a. The Company has a good faith, and objective reason to question a pilot’s use or attempted use of sick leave

If they don't have any valid, and "objective" reason to question your use of sick leave (and it sounds like they don't in your case), then they are not abiding by the contract. By my definition, that IS harassment.

And the email didn't quote this section, rather 6.b.
And for the record I do plan to call the union on this. I really want to know what the contract means in section "b" in reference to a holiday....

Had you repeatedly tried to drop or trade off the trip that you called in sick for?

There is a difference between looking bad and being bad. Regardless of how many times earlier in the month a drop was attempted, or a trade was attempted, doesn't mean can't call in sick. In fact, one might think an individual might make every effort to avoid calling in sick to avoid any hint of sick leave abuse.

The unasked question thus far is did this use of sick leave exceed the 72 hours of annual sick leave requiring a dip into the disability bank.
A doctors note may be required to dip into that bank. Whether the company would choose to push it that far is another question. (14.A.6.c)

The company could certainly be setting themselves up for punitive measures if they prevented someone from using their credited sick leave hours or recouped salary/refused to pay when the common sense man would think they were obligated to do so.

14.A.6.b. The pilot's absence from duty occurred in conjunction with his vacation period or a "holiday." As used herein, "holiday" means Easter, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, Christmas, New Years Eve or New Years Day; or


The Devil is in the details. What does "in conjunction with" mean? Something to go on the list for 2010 openers.

Definately get Union representation. Know your rights and your contract!

Isn't there some sort of HIPPA (sp) law that protects patient/doctor relationships?

And I agree with the prior posts you don't have to see a doctor to call in sick.

I would be interested to hear what our local FAA has to say about this. Maybe after consulting with the Union you should bring them in the loop.

Transparency for all parties is a good thing. Keeps us honest. It would be nice to get this settled once and for all of us.

I'm not sure what your question would be. Section b is pretty straight forward as far as a trip touching any of the listed holidays:

b. The pilot's absence from duty occurred in conjunction with his vacation period or a "holiday." As used herein, "holiday" means Easter, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, Christmas, New Years Eve or New Years Day; ...

Did the trip you called in sick on touch Christmas Eve at all? If not, then they shouldn't be trying to use section 6b.

No, never did anything to my schedule all month.

No, still have time in my bank.

No it was done on the 22nd with a dh to MEM on the 23rd am

This doesn't surprise me. It is much like not "approving" military leave until they see orders. Or calling me and my commander. I sent in the orders this time, but won't again. Management is way out of line.

But if they insist on a note, I wouldn't do so on my own time. Schedule your appointment on the same day as a trip. Call your manager and have pull you from your trip. What is the doctor going to say anyway? "The patient had the runs 6 days ago. He took pepto. He is well now." Give me a break, this is just pure harrassment. This "request" serves no other purpose.

On second thought, just call the union and make them earn their money. I wouldn't answer any calls from the company, even from the "blocked" numbers they use. These aren't friendly calls, believe me.

Sorry but a little thread creep. Does anyone know if you call in sick while on reserve, when you call back in well, do you immediately go back on reserve or do you go back on for your next day?

If you call in during your "availability" footprint then you are immediately back on reserve. Outside the footprint you are back on during the next footprint.

Depends if you were "charged" for a trip while sick, otherwise you can be assigned any trip that is legal for your reserve period remaining that day.

iii. Upon his return to flight status, a reserve pilot may be
given an assignment(s) for which he is eligible provided
that assignment does not begin prior to the scheduled
termination of the last activity charged to sick leave.
No legality conflict shall be considered to take place
between the last reserve trip charged to sick leave and
a subsequent assignment.

In Conjunction With...
 

For those that want to know,
conjunction |kənˈjə ng k sh ən|
noun

• an instance of two or more events or things occurring at the same point in time or space : a conjunction of favorable political and economic circumstances.

I'm no lawyer, but I think Webster et al would agree with me that "in conjunction with" does not mean, "occurring near," or "in the same week as," or even "on the day before..."
If your sick trip does not touch one of the specific holidays defined and listed in the CBA, in LBT, it is not "in conjunction with" that holiday (or vacation period) and is therefore not subject to the written note.
Yes, a friend of mine has pressed-to-test this definition with favorable results.

FYI, I called in sick earlier this year "close to" but not "on or during" a 4th of July trip. I got the same email requesting a note from my doctor, which I had btw, and completely ignored it. Never heard from anyone about it again.

FWIW, PT

I called in sick for RSV on 02 Jan 09. I got the form letter in my inbox. I had the same questions concerning "in conjunction with." I contacted the union office prior to that and received an email back telling me to cooperate with the company. I dutifully replied with my explanation. I heard nothing for a week or so. Next time I was in the AOC, I dropped by the office of EB to see if everything was cool. He looked up my reply on the spot, he hadn't even read it. He gave me the OK and I felt like I wasted my time.

On a related note ... (we must have different ACP's?)

I called in SCK for a trip that ended Dec. 24th (probably still had Delhi-belly from a previous trip?). Knowing the contract verbiage, I REALLY did go to a doctor. He wrote a note that said, "Seen today, OK for work after Dec. 28th."

Haven't heard squat from management yet? But have my note just in case I do?

Per the "Contract" 14.A.6: emphasis added by me,

The Company may require a pilot to provide the System Chief Pilot’s designee with a written statement from the pilot's physician explaining his inability to perform his assigned duties because of illness or injury if:

1. The Company has a good faith, and objective reason to question a pilot’s use or attempted use of sick leave; or
2. The pilot's absence from duty occurred in conjunction with his vacation period or a "holiday." As used herein, "holiday" means Easter, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, Christmas, New Years Eve or New Years Day; or
3. The pilot has requested to utilize his disability sick account in accordance with Section 14.D.2.a.

I don't see - or just missed - the prior "near a holiday" suggestion.

FWIW, about ten years ago I got a call from my ACP wanting a note because I called in sick after being given a reserve trip. I was not feeling well and wasn't sure if I would be able to fly the flt 8 hrs from then, so I thought I would do the right thing and give them plenty of notice to fill it now instead of waking up at midnight to make my decision 1 hr prior to show. When I came off of sick 2 days later I got the call from the ACP reequesting the letter. I said ok, and called my doctor. He said "I didn't see you 2 days ago when you were sick, I don't know what I can do for you? I thought about it and apologized for dragging him into this mess. I called the ACP back and said I can't give you a doctors note for being sick 2 days ago because I didn't go to the doctor. He said, Well, if you will promise me that you were sick then I'll let it go. I said That is what I was doing when I called in sick in VIPS, promising that I am sick. The union told me never to talk to that ACP again without them being with me.

When requesting a note from your doctor, remember that it is a HIPAA violation for your doctor to disclose your medical information without your approval. So unless you want to give your doctor approval to discuss your medical information with the company, just ask your doctor for a note stating "Mr XXX was under my care on XX Dec 09".

Normal discussions with your doctor usually concern continuing well being and methods to use for regular sick feelings that do not rise to the level of being seen by the doctor. Get lots of rest. Take it easy for a few days. Eat bland food until your stomach feels better. Keep hydrated. Elevate the injury. Ice for the first 24 Hrs. Watch what you eat. Stop smoking. Etc. Following your doctors advice means you are under their care. Just my opinion.

I just flew with an FO that got the email for being sick the day before Easter, nevermind that he called well in time to fly his Easter trip!:rolleyes:

Yes, it looks like sick leave is on the radar now. Just another grab by the company, with the goal of squeezing more profit out of us. Guess 4a2b isn't enough.

BTW...yes, it is a violation of federal law to demand an employee share medical information from a doctor with his/her employer. I have no interest in sharing this information. If I'm sick...I'm sick. Period.

A buddy of mine, Airbus Capt., calls in sick over xmas. He gets the " prove it" notification. So he makes a tee time with his doctor/buddy to be evaluated. The doctor gives him a notepad (about 50) of return to work notices. They are all signed and only the first one is filled in.The doc tells said Bus Capt. to fill out and date each one as neccessary. The one he turns in that the doc had already filled out is written in latin. It was for a yeast infection, never heard a word.

Ding....Ding.....Ding....Ding....!!
 

funniest post of the week!

yeast infection!!

Classic....I love it! :D

By the way...big brother is out there...
 

Remember that LK, aka "Deputy Dog", expense report master auditor, pariah, 6th down in the chain of the command from the President in his previous life as a reserve officer(or so he claimed to a bunch of kids in school on a career day) monitors these boards...

If your sick, your sick. If you get a call or a letter, tell them your sick, and that is it. Call the union. The company doesn't need to know why your sick, just that your unable to perform your duties or you were under a DR's care.

There has been a trend that if you have a sick day near one of the holidays or days listed in the contract that they will most likely ask for a letter. It has all but become SOP or so I'm told. You could call in sick for a trip on the 20th, an out and back, and not work till XMAS and still get a little because it is "adjacent" to a holiday.

Happy Holidays...oh by the way, two of my reserve trips had the same Flex Capt in the right seat on draft....we are overmanned, YEAH RIGHT!:confused:

Just to conclude this thread, I spoke with the union this morning and was told that "in conjunction with" has been interpreted to mean the 'day of, day before and day after'. Since my trip had an AM D/H on the 23rd to MEM, I was flagged.

Guess you can't read the contract literally.

I don't remember reading this interpretation anywhere, but I may have missed it...

Using that interpretation why not just say anytime in the month is considered "in conjunction with"!!! This is total BS and needs to stop!

The old interpretation was the "in conjunction with" went with a vacation period only.

The Contract Enforcement crowd needs to grow a pair and tell the company to pack sand and go by what the contract says and not what they want it to say.

[QUOTE
The Contract Enforcement crowd needs to grow a pair and tell the company to pack sand and go by what the contract says and not what they want it to say.[/QUOTE]

EXACTLY!

If recent history (ie accepted fares) is an example WE ARE DOOMED.

Flynlow, Not to hijack the thread but glad to see the Capt's (the ones flying draft in the right seat) helping everyone out. Wonder why some FO's are still mad about the age 60 thing and about Capt's taking their seat, now they are taking our right seat! I am pretty sure FO's are not flying draft in the left seat. I guess the 20% paycut from 4a2b and the loss of pay from not being able to upgrade is not enough for some of us to give up.

Happy Holidays! I am off until Feb 2010!

Bet you spoke to David T....he's the contract "expert" that always seems to work for the company. My opinion, it been long overdue for him to go. Perhaps David needs to take an english lesson. The contract states "in conjuction with your vacation or a holiday....." what it does not state is " in conjuction with either your vacation or a holiday..." These folks in contract enforcement are supposed to be our advocates. In my experience they are not. This is another clear cut case of the company over interpreting the contract with our guys standing by watching.