plus it says the subcontractor has to be using aircraft leased from UPS...... ATLAS or whomever is certainly using their own lift to provide services....

Exactly. Seems like we all have language in our contracts that the company can drive a bus through. "I guess they got us on that one".

Spoon, that is because we use pilots instead of lawyers to negotiate our contracts. Sure we have lawyers looking over our shoulders but the company uses better lawyers than we do, and every pilot group out there continues to get screwed by their contract

Agreed. We have a lot of talent on our side doing the best they can, but they can't be masters of everything.

Fdxmd11fo,

It also doesn't help when our IPA negociators had negociated $235/hr starting pay for Capts and our bretheren at FedEx low ball us at $225/hr!! and when the IPA negociates a No Open Time pick-up in the event of a furlough, and our FedEx bretheren negociate a "we'll take a 20 hour per month pay cut if you don't furlough" which initiated UPS current push to make us take concesssions/pay cuts like FedEx!!. When our union told UPS "pound salt, the furlough was initiated. It would be nice if the IPA and FedEx's MEC would talk to eachother and maybe your MEC could grow a set, instead of cutting us off at the knees. Not trying to flamebait, but lawyers aren't the problem....

Vito-
I mean really??? You have done absolutely ZERO fact checking on this one.

KC10/C130
I'll be the first to admit the details may be off, but I have it from the 2of the highest ranked IPA negociators that we (IPA) had our starting pay agreed at $235/hr.....it was a done deal, and then a few weeks before the tentative agreement was released you guys opened up at $225/hr at which point UPS came back and pushed us down!! directly from 2 of the highest union officials there. The reduced pay in luie of furlough clause you guys have is fine, you guys are trying to help your fellow pilots, but you have to realize that UPS came to us to get us to take the same pay concessions as FedEx, and we stood our ground, and the company pulled the furlough trigger. Obviously there are many other reasons for the furlough, but, again very high union folks have told us that UPS was fishing for pay concessions like the FedEx guys did!! My only point is if we both stand our ground we'll both prosper....Can't argue with my facts, I just wish your union would sharpen their teeth a little...My FedEx buddies agree with me as well.

You're absolutely right on this point, Vito. I heard it from the EB as well. FedEx undercut us by some $10 per hour.

Not a huge point, in my opinion, but it's still a fact. Thanks for pointing out, Vito.

Vito,
Without an inside track, it seems that FedEx is trying to keep all of its pilots employed. Have you ever been furloughed? Even if you have, where is it written that furloughs are part of the ATP? UPS has no reason to furlough, they are making a ton, but remember your soon to be unemployed.

I am confused. When you guys get paid regardless of wide or narrow body, how can our pay be a reflection on yours? This $225 opening pay, was that narrow body pay, because I get $240 an hour, and as far as our "20 hour cut in pay", that is something that in our opinion that is being used against us illegally, not something that we rolled over on.