This thread is for ULR and LH pilots. In regards to breaks, sleeping habits, and crew fatigue, What is some thing you would like your company or the FAA to change to make trips more productive, safe, and less detrimental to your health? I appreciate any input.

 

Bunks, quiet and completely temperature controlled.

FAA required, otherwise the company/union will just give the "requirements" lip service.

 

The thing that kills me is when this situation occurs:

1. You actually get a good night's sleep. Planned block out time 0830 local.
2. Flight delays for some reason such as loading/maintenance for 4 hours thus exceeding duty day.
3. Scheduling says "no problem" go back to the hotel for min rest, and we'll see ya again in another 12 hours.
4. Start nightmare all over again, now that you are 180* out of cycle, and fly 15 hours, land for 3 hours, take off again for another 2 hours, land, go to hotel, min rest again, fly 15 hours.

There needs to be some kind of factor for the time zones crossed. We need a scientifically backed formula.

I don't wish long haul on my worst enemy. It can be brutal. They don't pay me enough for this.....

 

Most of our long haul stuff (14+hour legs) signs in at night on day 1. I'm talking about sign in after 8pm, push between 21:45 to 22:15, and that's if you -don't- have a delay for mx or pax or what ever, and that's rare.

Now I know none of us are Superman, (don't tell your wife) and we do NOT live in a perfect world, so if you are "like me" you got up that morning at 06:30, delt with the wife and kids getting to school, commuted into your base about 3pm worrying about ATL Ground Stops, sat around for 3 hours doing your revisions and maybe you got a 2hr. nap in a broken black chair, before your 8pm sign in.

The fact remains, you are still going to start your long work day at your normal bed time or close to it. Then you fly 14+ hours, and you -hope- you can get some sleep on your break, but if there's any turbulance, good luck. So, if I were King, I would have these flights sign in at about 12 hours earlier, so you'd be landing about bedtime (or by midnight, ATL time), after two breaks, not too bad, even if you didn't get much sleep.

I flew a lot of ATL-NRT years ago when we had the MD11's, 4 man, about 13 hours going over, 14 on the way back. We signed in about 08:30 and pushed about 10am. It was much easier on my brain, but I was younger then too! I went to bed early, got up early, caught the 0600 to ATL and easily made sign in with a back up flt. too. I was "Fresh" for our 10am push instead of nodding off, waiting for paperwork on the 10pm pushes. With a 10pm push, you have already put in a -full day- before you even started your work day.

On the leg back to the states, I'm always well rested and ready to go, because I schedule my sleep to be sound asleep the final 8 hours (or 12 or 14!) before pickup. Yes, that means I'm sleeping all day on my layover instead of out sight seeing. But I've been to the ski slope mall in Dubai...once is enough.

 

I'll say that mgmt is becoming well aware of these facts and hopefully the research will have some effect on our schedules!

 

The more information the better! More input greatly appreciated! Specifically, East vs. west vs. south routes.

 

For me, it is beneficial to start my trip a little tired, maybe that is the wrong word, but excessively relaxed. My goal is to be able to sleep at least one of the naps on the plane...that is imperative.

One thing I think is way out of line is that witlow has no bearing on international ie, no lookback required. Where this has a potentially dangerous effect is when you are sitting 24 hour shortcall and lets say you get called out in the final 6-7 hours for a ULR flight. I have a great constitution, but I think personally I would be hating life on that trip or a detraction to the other pilot. Of course, it would not be at showtime that this was manifest, but 7-13 hours later. I do not think this is a good loophole.

For me, the "NASA" scientific rext break recommendations is bunk, it should be completely up to the crew to determine their rest breaks and if they are rested for the operation. The way the NASA breaks fall doesn't work with my circadian rhythm...or anyone I've flown with. IOW, generally blown off.

 

Do you guys split the rest in to 2 periods, 6 hours rest each?

I have flown with guys that have split it into 4 so you get 2 periods of 3 hours each and said they liked it, but have never tried it myself.

 

Now I know none of us are Superman, (don't tell your wife) and we do NOT live in a perfect world, so if you are "like me" you got up that morning at 06:30, delt with the wife and kids getting to school, commuted into your base about 3pm worrying about ATL Ground Stops, sat around for 3 hours doing your revisions and maybe you got a 2hr. nap in a broken black chair, before your 8pm sign in.

I'd watch what you admit. Two regional pilots were vilified posthumously last year for arriving for duty equally un-rested.

 

Since I am a junior FO, I do what I am told, but I have seen several different opinions on this. One Capt ran the flight in 3 hour shifts, which seemed to work pretty good. Another Capt liked to talk to the crew the day before, if possible, and have one set arrive tired to sleep the first 6 hours or so.

There is the issue of sleep inertia, rem state, and cycles, etc. Some people find it very difficult if they sleep more than 90 minutes to wake up.

I am a freight dog, so the nature of our business is more volatile than the passenger side regarding the schedule.

It is always hit and miss for me as I never know how I am going to sleep while on the road for 3 weeks each month. I have never called fatigue because most of our Captains will ask each of us for an honest answer about our rest. I have never seen a Capt deny a tired man the first rest.

BTW- 5 hours energy shots work really well for me.