Airline Pilot Central Forums - FedEx TA reached

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Well, HKG MD-11 Captain will be easily staffed.

FEPP = Captains staffed @ 100%

As for the F/O seat, they need to increase the FDA.

My guess that this "CBA in-work" might be a new norm?? Amendable every 12 or 24 months UFN versus retreating to trenches (to quote our message line). Positives & Negatives for each process....

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyViper (Post 938627)

Call me naive or ignorant or whatever you choose, but it blows my mind when some of you guys shout "READ IT!!!" and almost use that phrase as an insult. I read the last one, I read the one before that, I've read the LOAs that come our way, but I'm no dorky lawyer and I don't know what a lot of that stuff means. I especially can't find the hidden loopholes (I can't find the hidden money, either) and I can't find the little nuggets that the management guys hid in there for themselves. That's why, at least in my opinion, we are paying the union guys.

I will read this TA, but I'm not going to see the things that will hang us. If any of you had been told what the company was going to do with 4A2b, would you have voted for the last one with that gem in there? I specifically remember the last one and emailing my rep and asking for "some plain language bullets" put out by the union and they didn't want to do that. "Just read it". It really POs me to think of those guys last time strutting around saying "Read it! Read it!" while the company lawyers were trying to hold there laughter in.

So for you guys that are barking "Read it!", just remember that people are reading it, but that doesn't mean that we understand all the ramifications and details. Saying that repeatedly may stifle some discussion. And before I get both barrels in the face, allow me to repeat, I do read the everything the union sends us. I even try not to use it to wipe the drool off my face.

JohnnyViper is spot on. The only way most of us really learn what the contract says, is to have been burned by it. There's a reason the SUB chase-through chart is in the pocket calendar. Because reading the text makes ZERO sense to non-attorneys. (and apparently the 4a.2b language didn't make enough sense to our ALPA attorneys either).
Somebody smart needs to give us knuckle draggers (which is most of us), some plain English language explaining the changes. Maybe some of you "READ IT!" types might take the time to enlighten the rest of us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

Let's keep P2P on the pilot to pilot level, not the pilot to public board. Our job is to get the word out person to person, not by posting on public internet forums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skimmology (Post 938559)

So can we ask the P2P reps and they can tell us?

I think you have to be in a sound proof room so no information leaks out to the public.

Where's the P2P room at the AOC?

Once we give them the FDA and UL flying, the company will have no reason to bargain with us for anything. They are still laughing that our last contract didn't keep up with inflation. This TA should reflect the monetary value of what we are giving the company. I am looking forward to reading it. If the raisess are 3% as rumored, it is inadequate and unacceptable. The MEC shouldn't even send it to the membership.

Promises to come back and negotiate later remind me of treaties made with the Indians. I believe they were promised everything west of the Mississippi river.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBaron (Post 938696)

I hope they considered putting something in the contract that at least guarantees a COLA raise while we negotiate the next contract (1 or 2 years down the road.)

I proposed something like that to NC folk and was told 'anything that guarantees something after the end of the contract is essentially an extension of the contract'.

Here's hoping my source was wrong. Getting COLA while negotiating for the typical years it takes to get a new CBA would be great for not only the FedEx pilots, but for all pilot groups who lose out to the CPI every time their contract becomes amendable.

Maybe an LOA or something? There's got to be a way to get this done. I hope FedEx ALPA can provide leadership on this issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper (Post 938745)

I hope you werent told something like that by new NC. Our CBA never expires it only becomes amendable. There is no such thing as essentially extending a contract that doesnt expire. Our current CBA is amendable now that does not mean it has expired.

UPs has a provision in their CBA that allows annual raises after the contract becomes amendable. It is not rocket surgery it is only what are you willing to give up to get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tractor Bob (Post 938744)

Once we give them the FDA and UL flying, the company will have no reason to bargain with us for anything. They are still laughing that our last contract didn't keep up with inflation. This TA should reflect the monetary value of what we are giving the company. I am looking forward to reading it. If the raisess are 3% as rumored, it is inadequate and unacceptable. The MEC shouldn't even send it to the membership.

Promises to come back and negotiate later remind me of treaties made with the Indians. I believe they were promised everything west of the Mississippi river.

Don't get me wrong...Because I agree with what you're thinking. But, if you're talking the raises in the last contract not keeping up with inflation...Not true.

W/B Capt. top rate 2004 = 206.24
W/B Capt. top rate 2010 = 245.65

Inflation calculator(CPI Calculator) says that 2004's $206.24 is worth $238.07 in 2010 dollars. So, we clobbered inflation! :rolleyes: And, who says recessions are not a good thing?

P.S. N/B did about the same.

Something interesting in the FedEx response to the new crew rest rules. The FAA proposes leaving the ULR rules up to each airline and the contract with their pilots. FedEx is proposing a 20 hour duty day for ULR flying, provided you are given 48 hours off.

So basically if FedEx can influence the FAA, they get ULR flying rules without negotiating with their pilots. So of course the company wants to wait until the ruling to have a contract. It eliminates this as an issue.

It was the initial 10% at signing. After that, 3% doesn't do it. But, if the TA has 10% initially and then 3% we can do business.

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Originally Posted by Busboy (Post 938706)

Trust me, there's not any lack of RLA understanding on Nakazawa's part. But, there does seem to be a major lack of clarity on the NC's part concerning this TA and the 12/24 month options.

I guess we'll just have to wait and find out exactly what they're talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FXDX (Post 938707)

I have to agree wholeheartedly with Busboy on this, and that never happens! Nakazawa is a tremendous advocate for our crew force and I strongly supported his run for a spot on our MEC. He knows of what he speaks, and pimping him on the semantics of the amendable nature of the contract is completely missing the point.

Don't know him but I'll concede your point. I just thought it strange after making such relevant points that he threw in the comment about some portion of the contract ceasing to be honored.