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Quote:

Originally Posted by iarapilot (Post 963583)

The $$ will be taken out one way or the other by the Company scheduling folks. Years ago we went from 7hr/day to 6hr/day and was told it was not a big deal. Then we have 4a2b still in the line up. They will make it a break even for them. You can count on it.

Lets tell the whole truth here. Not just leave it hanging like we took an hour a day pay cut. The pay rates where increased to make the hour change a wash then raises were added to that new number.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4A2B (Post 963602)

Point taken, you are right. The Company will ALWAYS seek ways to neutralize the total cost effect, but the money in your pocket is indisputable. We will all receive more money on an annual basis. They cant "wash" that away. Whether the total cost increase in pay is offset by FDA savings, fuel sense etc. or not on the Company ledger, the raise/lump sum will actually show up in your W2. Not a huge amount, barely a COLA but more than zero.

As others have said, retro is not guaranteed and don't think in a new CBA it is not part of the total package, it is. Meaning, we have to "buy" it back. At least that is what our ALPA Nat'l Professional Negotiator says in his video, and I tend to believe him as it makes sense to me.

So, if we are giving up FDA language and watching flying get pulled out of the domestic domiciles to pay for this little 3% what are we going to give up next? We are running out of good stuff to give.... :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4A2B (Post 963675)

selective highlighting by you! The MEC decides and it was explained at a hub turn meeting that I attended that the "system wide" was added to make the limit, based on not each "seat" held by an Officer, but was changed to simplify the limit, there is only one limit. Yet the carry-over and seat language is present today and the MEC can raise/decrease pay via a policy manual change, irrespective of ANY of the changes in this TA.

This is what I got from the explanation:

MEC Officers get paid ONLY what they hold (no super seniority) and at the CH amount determined by the MEC policy manual. Meaning no change, unless done via a policy change by the MEC and the MEC alone.

The 10 pilots include the listed ones as well (officers, national reps etc) so there are only about 4-5 "extra" ones available. Those were added to allow the Unions business to be conducted and require FDX to allow those pilots to be removed from flying and compensated at the rate, once again, determined solely by YOUR MEC. Again, makes sense to me. We control all of it though our elected reps.

The reason I said contact your rep, is you obviously are not comprehending or believing me and the other posters. Whether that is for political effect or stubbornness I don't care, just pointing out you should verify with the source before you make "factual" claims.

from the MEC manual:

F. COMPENSATION AND GUIDELINES
1. The compensation and work guidelines for the MEC officers will be reviewed and
amended as appropriate by the MEC. Prior to the election cycle for the officers, the MEC
will make a determination for each officer position as to whether that position will be
assigned to full-time or part-time duty with the Association. Any change to the duty
assignment of an individual officer prior to the end of the current term will be made by
the MEC in consultation with that officer.
2. MEC officers assigned to full-time duty with the Association shall be governed by the
following policies.
a. Work
(1) Fifteen (15) office days are required for a 4-week month.
(2) Nineteen (19) office days are required for a 5-week month.
(3) Weekends do not count as office days unless actually worked.
(4) Union business out of the office (out of town) counts as a day for a day.
(5) AFB trips count as workdays.
(6) PDO trips do not count as workdays unless required for currency.
(7) When all three officers are on full-time duty with the Association, to the
maximum extent possible, the officers will coordinate their schedules to
ensure that at least two officers are scheduled to be in the FDX MEC office at
all times.
10
(8) To earn a “work day” credit, the officer must be at the office for at least five
hours of that day, or the required commute to/from his home of record
exceeds five hours, or performs assigned union work while at his home of
record a minimum of six hours in a day. Workdays computed under these
guidelines would be limited to two (2) days in a four-week month and three
(3) days in a five-week month. The assigned work at his home of record
would have to be approved by the two other officers. These days would be
reviewed and accounted for by the FOC in their semi-annual report.
(9) The Financial Oversight Committee (FOC) will forward to the MEC a semiannual
“look back” report covering officer travel, vacation, AFB/PDO, sick
activity, MEC expenses and other issues as required

g. Flight Pay Loss and Override
(1) Officers will bid in a pay only status.
(2) Officers will be compensated at the rate of ninety-eight (98) CHs per month,
calculated in accordance with Section 60.M.2. b. (4). of ALPA policy, the
MEC having determined that this compensation falls within the parameters of
this ALPA policy. This compensation will be based on the bid status of the
MEC officer.

I'm not sure how this simplifies the process. Aren't we talking about 10 pilots here?

So we're adding 4-5 more guys to the mix (at the discretion of the MEC Chairman (NOT OUR BLOCK REPS)? And, they aren't required to maintain currency if the MEC Chairman decides it to be so?

I am aware of the pay conditions of the MEC. Talking about the fox guarding the hen house!

Do you still find it at least interesting that Section 18 got a rewrite when very little else did? I do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfandfly (Post 963730)

The MEC guys got a seperate wilson poll. Here are some of the results: 90% of the 13 respondents wanted a rewrite of Section 18. 20% of the respondents thought that 4A2b was an important issue to be looked at in future contracts. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastV1 (Post 963712)

Lets tell the whole truth here. Not just leave it hanging like we took an hour a day pay cut. The pay rates where increased to make the hour change a wash then raises were added to that new number.

I am to lazy to look the numbers up, but I would bet that it was a break even for the Company in the long run due to the optimizer. If we would have been a little more forward thinking, we would have taken the work rules/optimizer effect into consideration to get a bigger picture of how they would recoup their given pay raise/hour cut.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4A2B (Post 963602)

The increased money in my pocket will most likely be disputable when the new TA language for the FDA's changes our bidpacks and 4a2b will most likely be used to negate the pay raise and probably over the long run end up being a pay cut. So, they certainly can wash it away! And to say it is barely a COLA but more than zero is, IMO, setting your standards pretty low.

I honestly could care less about a pay raise. Fixing 4a2b, accepted fares, and all the other "loopholes" that can be used by the Company to nullify our raise is what is important to me.

And yes, I do believe we have leverage concerning the FDA stuff. Even if we vote no and they open new FDA's under our current language, I think that we would be much better off vice giving them what they want now and not fixing the other contractual stuff that needs fixin now; not later.

As far as our ALPA Pro Negotiator and what he says in the video; to me he doesnt say much except a bunch of political type talk. And, sometimes I wonder how much of our best interest is served using the advice of National. I remember after the last FDA LOA passed, Airline Pilot Mag had an article on how FedEx just past an industry leading contractual item. A bunch of hogwash to me. It may be industry leading in their minds, but for us here, it caused all kinds of other problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfandfly (Post 963730)

I'm not sure how this simplifies the process. Aren't we talking about 10 pilots here?

So we're adding 4-5 more guys to the mix (at the discretion of the MEC Chairman (NOT OUR BLOCK REPS)? And, they aren't required to maintain currency if the MEC Chairman decides it to be so?

I am aware of the pay conditions of the MEC. Talking about the fox guarding the hen house!

Do you still find it at least interesting that Section 18 got a rewrite when very little else did? I do.

if that is a retraction, kind of a weak one.:)

Section 18 was bargained last fall, see the NC updates, well before any talk of this short term CBA. So if you are implying they rushed out and closed the deal on 18 after the process to do a short term deal started, that does not appear to to be true.

It was low hanging fruit, almost all admin. Easy for FDX since most 18 involves US paying the bill.

If you think we have suspect or corrupt foxes, I suggest you immediately contact the FOC chair and get involved. Our MEC is as transparent as they come, if they approve a pay increase or decrease it will be made known well in advance of any actual vote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iarapilot (Post 963786)

We will never know what the company recouped. I do know we gave away the first FDA, we've given up city purity etc. I just don't want to give up the FDA now for something we will get anyway.....

Purple Tail, ditto .................................

In the final days of voting for the proposed TA I think it is extreemly important for everyone to READ the TA and decide. Objectively evaluate the total proposal and vote from a position of strength not fear. After reading and re-reading the TA and changing my vote several times my final conclusion is:
1) 4a2b has not been sufficiently "fixed"
2) Section 18 seems to have been way to important to the MEC while most the other issues(accepted fares, carryin, numerous other scheduling issues, retirement cap, survivor benifits, etc...) seemed to have been either ignored or posponed until Section 6 talks resume?
3) The 3% raise with the 1% bonus followed by the potential of another 3% a year from now is inadequate to me to try and choke this deal down without a great deal of difficulty and nausea.
I think it is time for this crewforce to say "NO" and send this TA back to the drawing table for more work!
That's my two cents!