FDX-777 Denied Jumpseats
 

Gents:

Is anyone else hearing about a nice new trend going on whereby our own guys are being denied jumpseats on the 777 because the flying crews want less guys on the airplane? If so, this is kind of unsat. I understand that they are long flights and all that, but that is ridiculous. The latest it happened was on Flight 195 MEM-NRT on 15 Jun. Thanks, Captain!

WM :mad:

I heard most the toolboxes from the MD-11 and Airbus went to the Triple 7. Looks like it may be true. Doesn't affect me but if it is trend, a call to Pro Standards might be worth it. If anything but for a *** call.

Agreed! Pro-stan is the way to handle this as is a taste of his own medicine. This guy is a commuter as well, so...what comes around, goes around!

WM

topic re-attack
 

Manny,
Another thread went a little sideways (here? on this forum?) and hit on this subject a while back.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ca...-pank-c-2.html

Total BS, IMO. This needs to be stopped.

My friend was the pilot denied the seat.

He was told "that with an additional jumpeseater it is too crowded with a double crew". I guess with the seats in the back plus the rest facilities, the largest plane on the property still wasn't roomie enough for this guy. Can any 777 guys weigh in on this please?

What makes matters worse is that he had my freind's email address and cell phone number from his email requesting the ride, but this guy couldn't be bothered to let him know he was going to screw him until the day of the flight. Absolutely no consideration for a fellow crewmember...

I have heard that our Hong Kong breathren have had to face this issue several times. What gives? Any Hong Kong guys care to comment? This is definitely the kind of UNITY that the company likes to see among it's crewmembers. We don't have to wait for the company to hose us on the next contract...we're doing it to each other already!

FYI: The Captain that denied the jumpseater is on Trip 81/15 Jun, and it ends in ANC on the 18th. Initials are SM. He has a backend deadhead. I'd sure hate to see this guy be denied a seat home...sometimes those planes just get too crowded. Unlisted phone numbers, but if you know where he lives, please PM me. I'd love to know; sometimes those flights out of his hometown just get too full as well.

Most guys spend most of their break time in the bunk. Even if you're reading or watching videos it's more comfortable.

There's a few that don't use the bunks. I don't know why. They stay in the courier seats, sometimes killing all the lights back there. Maybe they don't want any company.

I don't have any problem with jumpers on the 777. You're welcome anytime, and I think the vast majority of the other pilots feel that way. I think ALPA needs to step in here.

Just a follow up...

I heard Las Vegas jumpseating can be pretty tough...just something I heard.

This is unsat. The only thing to be careful of is it an Air france plane, only 4 people allowed total.

Totally UNSAT...need to call the FDX ALPA jumpseat chairman. We're are own worst enemy!

I hope they're Cheetos!!:o

Our SCP did say the 777 guys are the big dogs now. They appear to be a coddled group that expects extra privileges. I predict they will be allowed to get away with this.

At least until the backlash from other crewmembers gets too much. But be careful. I'm sure they can't take their own medicine and will run to the ACPs for assistance.

Maybe they will be calmer once the company purchases the noise attenuating headsets for the 777's that they are currently considering.

It is not like we have ever had another loud airplane on the property before the 777. :rolleyes:

Looks like a widebody, it should pay llike a widebody. Not a penny more.

Exactly. The would be the only ones getting them.

Just curious how you know it was the Captain that objected to the extra guy? Many times in the past it was the F/O, RF2 or RFO. I would guess it would be best if all members of the crew are contacted prior to tying to jumpseat with a double crew.

Sound to me that some crewmembers have very little consideration for the working crewmembers. I would never even consider trying to ride on a double crew aircraft, but then I've been around long enough to know better.:D

Last time I checked that was the Captain's responsibility.:eek:

Perhaps, but it's a good captain who discusses these types of issues with his or her crew, before making his decision.

Yah sure thats all good and CRM'EE, but if a FedEx pilot is denied a jumpseat on my plane its NOT the F/o's decision. Maybe you weren't around for the last round of jumpseat denial issues, but there weren't any F/O's or RFO's called in to talk to the VP Ops and CP.

Now I have really heard it all! FH lecturing anyone about about being considerate to others. So it's OK to demand you get an extra 5 years at the top after a full career, delaying others careers by those same 5 years, causing some to lose homes and families, and suffer great financial distress, but you would never jumpseat on a double crew aircraft? Save us any of your lectures about being considerate FH, you and your APAAD brethren proved long ago that greed is what drives you, not consideration for others.

True, but it is also the good captain that would take the time to explain to the concerned f/o or rfo the importance of helping fellow crew members. Guess I have been lucky and haven't had a single f/o or RFO have an issue with a fellow pilot jumpseating.

Guys I've been on the 777 since August, have flown quite a few jumpseaters, including MEM-ICN, and have never once been asked my opinion on whether or not they should go. It's just not that big a deal to have them back there.

Report all these incidents to the pro stans guys and the jumpseat committee. I'll bet it's like 5% of the captains. And yes, I've heard a name that's already notorious.

You guys keep complaining about 777 crews and we'll send you back captains you-know-who, you-know-who and you-know-who....

It's okay...in a little over a year, FH will be sitting sideways...oops, I mean nursing a shoulder injury. ;)

That's right, because it is the Captain's decision, but he might have been influenced by his crew in this matter, that's all I'm saying.

I don't get it. There is so much room on that plane there is no reason not to take two jumpers with 4 crew. The only hard part would be finding your food among all the white boxes. But then again what do I know. All I do is cook, eat, sleep and keep the seat warm. I haven't landed in 9 months.

I feel your pain.....

Happened to me too, CDG-MEM. Capt JH, calendar blocker, has an AR-area code on his profile. J/S Admin said he came to them in person and claimed they had too many people in the back but pairing only showed three. He had them do his dirty work just days before the flight, rather than reply to my 3 week advanced email request shows what a d-bag he really must be. I've never dealt w/Pro Stan--do they have any teeth? My thought is to just do what I can to deny j/s for all 777 guys and let them police their own tools. Not the right thing I admit, but what else can we do?

Not punish the many for the sins of the few, for starters....

I jumpseated on FedEx about a year ago and the Captain won't let myself or their own FedEx pilot in the cockpit from MEM-SMF at all. It was freaking loud and COLD in the back. I swore I would do my best to not J/S on FedEx unless I was in dire need. If you ever want to go on a freighter overseas, check out the non-sched's first. They allow Int'l J/S. They are great !

Sorry about that. We've got our 5%, just like everybody else.

Was it a 757?

Think of it more as a way to motivate those who actually can make a difference, to do so.

You honestly want to start this? You know how many ANC guys ride on the 777 to work from Memphis?

Alright Francis(es), everyone lighten up. The only thing we're trying to do here is make it known how much our guys need the jumpseat and if those commuters need a ride, how about some charitable love here and there?

Someday everyone can ride on my jumpseat,

WM :-)

Disclaimer: I have NOT been in one of our 777s to see the cockpit/bunk/cabin seat layout. But someone who has please fill me in:

The 4 flying guys have to be in the cockpit for TO/Lnd. After that, 2 of them are reading/sleeping in the bunks and/or eating in a cabin seat.

Some captains are saying there isn't enough room for a jumpseater to occupy one of the 2 (I'm assuming 4 cabin seats in back) empty cabin seats for the entire flight??

If I'm picturing the layout of this thing even remotely right in my head, this does not pass the sanity check.

I know the pilot denied as well. He ended up spending over $1100 of his own money to buy a ticket because this D-bag would not let him on. I never thought I would see this for a guy with a 96xxx number...

...............

If it was cold you should have used the call button to ask them to warm it up. If it was too loud for you then perhaps you should look elsewhere for your free ride. Most of my jumpseaters prefer to ride in the back and get some sleep, though all are always welcome in the front as well. Sounds like you need to find another free way to travel from your posting.

I'm a HK guy...I did the HKG-MEM jumpseat with double crew, a FAA inspector, and two of us HK jumpers (7 total bodies). Absolutely plenty of room for everyone, and not one grumble from anyone. Like was previously stated, the toughest part was digging out your catering.

Hey Fedex guys.....Kalitta now runs a 400 from CVG-ANC and ANC-CVG almost everyday I think. 10 total JS on the plane (8 business class seats...much better than those coach things you guys have on your planes). Usually have a third pilot and a mechanic, so can take 8 extra guys. Call the 800 number on the website and ask for ops to get the schedule. You are always welcome!

Thats awesome. Thanks!!

My Friend writes the following....

"A fellow HKG crew member was just denied a jump seat, MEM-NRT, by our
own company crew member, while returning from a Class reunion in the
US. The Captain's explanation was that the airplane is just too
crowded. I find this behavior and explanation unacceptable. Please
advise me if there is something my Union can address. I want to
express my concern for what may be a real issue. I am not a commuter
and live in Hong Kong, however, needed to go to xxxxx for my
immediate family. I myself never received a response from the PIC
for the flight from HKG-MEM.. I called jump seat and they allowed me
to still show for the flight. I was told by the Captain that I wasn't
to use the seats or the bunks in flight. Basically he wanted me to lay
on the floor in between the R1 door and the row of seats, I
fortunately had a bedroll to lay on. I am not alone in this request.
I have spoke with Captains and Fo's based here in Hong Kong who have
experienced similar situations and requests from crews, specifically,
the B777 MEM crews operating the long-haul flights.

Jump seating is a privilege and not a right. I am aware of that, but
to be denied by your own company and treated like a low class citizen
is really not what our Union should be promoting either.