Dom and Flag Ops duty limits w/in 7 Days
07-18-2011, 06:55 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 FO
Posts: 101
Dom and Flag Ops duty limits w/in 7 Days
I am schedule to fly 1 Domestic Ops pairing and 1 Flag Ops pairing (all 3 pilot legs) both within a 7 day period. Total block time for both pairing = 36:49 hours (1:42 Dom & 35:07 Flag).
Dom Ops is 30 hours max with in 7 consecutive days. Flag Ops (3 pilot) is 120 hours max in any consecutive 30 days.
Can't find the answer anywhere. Will the combined duty time of Domestic and Flag greater than 30 hours violate the FAR concerning Domestic Ops or is there an exemption to the rule?
Dom Ops is 30 hours max with in 7 consecutive days. Flag Ops (3 pilot) is 120 hours max in any consecutive 30 days.
Can't find the answer anywhere. Will the combined duty time of Domestic and Flag greater than 30 hours violate the FAR concerning Domestic Ops or is there an exemption to the rule?
07-18-2011, 08:37 AM
#2
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 777 F/O
Posts: 340
Originally Posted by Born2AV8
I am schedule to fly 1 Domestic Ops pairing and 1 Flag Ops pairing (all 3 pilot legs) both within a 7 day period. Total block time for both pairing = 36:49 hours (1:42 Dom & 35:07 Flag).
Dom Ops is 30 hours max with in 7 consecutive days. Flag Ops (3 pilot) is 120 hours max in any consecutive 30 days.
Can't find the answer anywhere. Will the combined duty time of Domestic and Flag greater than 30 hours violate the FAR concerning Domestic Ops or is there an exemption to the rule?
Dom Ops is 30 hours max with in 7 consecutive days. Flag Ops (3 pilot) is 120 hours max in any consecutive 30 days.
Can't find the answer anywhere. Will the combined duty time of Domestic and Flag greater than 30 hours violate the FAR concerning Domestic Ops or is there an exemption to the rule?
07-18-2011, 11:35 AM
#3
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Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Mad Dog Capt
Posts: 226
Not sure about that.
The 32/7 is the factor. If you fly the first trip, all is well and nothing happens. However...since the change to flag ops, skeds may remove you from the long 2nd trip within a few days prior due to 32/7. What's worse, you don't go into SUB. They drop the trip outright and add the CH's to your makeup bank. There's nothing in the contract, so this is the way the company is interpreting it.
I've had this happen twice since flag ops appeared. Might call your futures scheduler and ask.
The 32/7 is the factor. If you fly the first trip, all is well and nothing happens. However...since the change to flag ops, skeds may remove you from the long 2nd trip within a few days prior due to 32/7. What's worse, you don't go into SUB. They drop the trip outright and add the CH's to your makeup bank. There's nothing in the contract, so this is the way the company is interpreting it.
I've had this happen twice since flag ops appeared. Might call your futures scheduler and ask.
07-18-2011, 04:32 PM
#4
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 11 Capt
Posts: 509
Originally Posted by meatloaf
Not sure about that.
The 32/7 is the factor. If you fly the first trip, all is well and nothing happens. However...since the change to flag ops, skeds may remove you from the long 2nd trip within a few days prior due to 32/7. What's worse, you don't go into SUB. They drop the trip outright and add the CH's to your makeup bank. There's nothing in the contract, so this is the way the company is interpreting it.
I've had this happen twice since flag ops appeared. Might call your futures scheduler and ask.
The 32/7 is the factor. If you fly the first trip, all is well and nothing happens. However...since the change to flag ops, skeds may remove you from the long 2nd trip within a few days prior due to 32/7. What's worse, you don't go into SUB. They drop the trip outright and add the CH's to your makeup bank. There's nothing in the contract, so this is the way the company is interpreting it.
I've had this happen twice since flag ops appeared. Might call your futures scheduler and ask.
07-18-2011, 05:57 PM
#5
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Originally Posted by meatloaf
Not sure about that.
The 32/7 is the factor. If you fly the first trip, all is well and nothing happens. However...since the change to flag ops, skeds may remove you from the long 2nd trip within a few days prior due to 32/7. What's worse, you don't go into SUB. They drop the trip outright and add the CH's to your makeup bank. There's nothing in the contract, so this is the way the company is interpreting it.
I've had this happen twice since flag ops appeared. Might call your futures scheduler and ask.
The 32/7 is the factor. If you fly the first trip, all is well and nothing happens. However...since the change to flag ops, skeds may remove you from the long 2nd trip within a few days prior due to 32/7. What's worse, you don't go into SUB. They drop the trip outright and add the CH's to your makeup bank. There's nothing in the contract, so this is the way the company is interpreting it.
I've had this happen twice since flag ops appeared. Might call your futures scheduler and ask.
Eligibility for Substitution
A pilot is eligible for substitution if he is removed from a trip for which he is entitled to trip guarantee for any of the reasons listed in this paragraph
25.H.2.g - FAR or Other Governing Authority
The pilot is removed from the trip because he will or is projected to exceed FAR limitations or because of other government controlled restrictions, (e.g., work visa not issued in time, revocation or denial of route authority).
It can't get much more black and white than that. 32/7 is an FAR and you were removed from a trip for it. You need to grieve this. I get it that sub isn't always what we want, but there are times where it's a good deal. This would be one of them. If you're removed from a trip for 32/7, the chances they can assign you something else during the same time frame is reduced. Sometimes I want OTP and the extra 25% but there are times as a commuter that I'm not interested in re-flowing my schedule. I'll take the pay for what I was scheduled and go home early, especially when I have min chance of flying. I definitely want the choice either way. We need to nip this in the bud.
The week they "turned on" flag ops, I was removed from a trip I had just picked up a couple of days earlier. When I picked it up, I was legal. When they started flag, I was not legal due to 32/7.
I was put in sub. I guess I'll print everything I have to document them putting me in sub with a 32/7. At least I'll have some ammo for my grievance if they do it to me.
07-18-2011, 06:09 PM
#6
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 777 F/O
Posts: 340
32n7 only applies to 2 pilot Flag legs
Originally Posted by meatloaf
Not sure about that.
The 32/7 is the factor. If you fly the first trip, all is well and nothing happens. However...since the change to flag ops, skeds may remove you from the long 2nd trip within a few days prior due to 32/7. What's worse, you don't go into SUB. They drop the trip outright and add the CH's to your makeup bank. There's nothing in the contract, so this is the way the company is interpreting it.
I've had this happen twice since flag ops appeared. Might call your futures scheduler and ask.
The 32/7 is the factor. If you fly the first trip, all is well and nothing happens. However...since the change to flag ops, skeds may remove you from the long 2nd trip within a few days prior due to 32/7. What's worse, you don't go into SUB. They drop the trip outright and add the CH's to your makeup bank. There's nothing in the contract, so this is the way the company is interpreting it.
I've had this happen twice since flag ops appeared. Might call your futures scheduler and ask.
If there is an embedded two pilot leg, then everything within the last 7 days is considered and if it would bust 32 in 7, then the entire trip will be dropped or you would be unable to pick it up.
I thought he said all the int'l legs were augmented, so I think he is good to go. I've had skeds explain this to me once when I was not sure, so give them a call.
07-19-2011, 09:51 AM
#7
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 362
Originally Posted by onetime
I don't claim to be an expert, but if you are augmented on all of the international trips, 32 in 7 is not a factor.
I thought he said all the int'l legs were augmented, so I think he is good to go. I've had skeds explain this to me once when I was not sure, so give them a call.
I thought he said all the int'l legs were augmented, so I think he is good to go. I've had skeds explain this to me once when I was not sure, so give them a call.
32/7 only applies to two man international ops.
