FEDEX Negotiating Committee Bragging out TA
 

Our Negotiating Committee at FEDEX ,showed up in a local Bar in Anchorage, bragging about the superiority of the Fedex TA over the UPS contract.

The source observed, how one member identified himself, as the attorney for the Negotiating committee, was arguing that:

Our Negotiating Committee at FEDEX ,showed up in a local Bar in Anchorage, bragging about the superiority of the Fedex TA over the UPS contract.

The source observed, how one member identified himself, as the attorney for the Negotiating committee, was arguing that:

Did someone hear an Echo?? Echo?? :eek:

Speak louder...................
 

Hello ....... Hello .......Hello ........hello...




can you hear me??????

He is just testing you to see who has ignored him.

I hope that any negotiating committee members who show up in bars have all of their drinks paid for. And if in SFS....all barfines...

bar talk
 

Before our contract was voted in, we had a pilot in the far east complaining about the ta in the bar...a nw guy decked him..lol...u want to feel some pain, then here it is..lol

Pilot7576

I like the way Brown handles things.. Fight the good fight!!!

I've read your t/a and with the exception of scheduling, pay, vacation and b-fund retirement (a-fund was all you) , yall definitely kicked our ass.

Still Luv u guys tho

Are you sure read the FDX TA?

All kidding aside, I have read your Contract as well. ( I am A$$uming you work for UPS)

Do you really think your Work rules and Scheduling are better than ours?
Ours certainly aren't worthy of a rumble of thunder from the heavens, but give me some examples of where yours are Better.

Vacation? Come on. Ours is better.

Pay, as concerned with pay published rates.I can't argue, except I guess we will have to compare w-2s at the end of the first month.

UPS makes more than Fedex. They can HAVE the highest payrates IMHO. I hope they get even more next time. That way...we can say..."well...UPS gets that much...and they make money...why can't we?" I have no desire the be the bullseye on the cover of all the business magazines like Delta and United pilots were in 2000.

Again.......hourly rates doesn't tell the whole story.

Look at what a domestic hubturner's w-2 is at both companies and compare days worked.

Do the same for INTL...........

Higher Hourly rates do not always translate into Higher w-2's

vacation
 

Redeye...

It's my understanding that if you conflict your vacation and drop more than your vacation is worth, it is up to you to make up the deficit. Is that true? At ups, they have to fill it in for you...you still get your guaranteed trip credit if they don't.

JTF

Pilot7576

Depends. If you have more vacation hours from your next vacation slot, you can expand and use those. If you have no extra hours then you will go into the hole on vacation and those hours will come out of your vacation time at the beginning of the next year. You will get paid your BLG regardless. They only difference is how many of your vacation hours are "spent". I think there is a limit to how far into the hole you can go, but I'm not sure.

You can also make up trips later to refill your vacation deficit if you would rather instead of taking the hit at the beginning of the next year. Then instead of getting paid for the makeup trip you just add hours into your vacation account to reduce your deficit.

vacation
 

Fxdx...

That is my point...when we drop a trip, we are GUARANTEED the credit for the trip. The company gets a chance to backfill your unused days, but if they can't, there is no penalty. If you choose to backfill, you only have to get within 5 hours of your deficit to satisfy the company. Most choose to roll the dice. Vacation buy back (company is doing that right now) comes at 6 hrs/day plus a premium (latest bid is 20 hr premium to get you to sell). So for one's week of vacation, the company is offering to buy it back for 62 hours.

I think your scheduling rules are better but ours improved a lot this time around. Our reserve rules improved a lot..so much so I probably won't be able to hold it anymore. Retirement still favors you guys I think, unless you're very young. The b plan at 12% for someone in their late 20's/early 30's is HUGE. 30 years of compounding to boot!

I think both pilot groups got deals they can crow about a bit. In either case, we're both laughing all the way to the bank considering what others in the industry are suffering through now.

JMO

Pilot7576

What happens at UPS if you are unable to bid a trip in conflict with your vacation?

vacation
 

ptarmigan...

If you fail conflict bidding, you get 3 hrs per day of vacation.

Pilot7576

That's what I thought. We used to have something like that. Ours came about due to two issues:

1. Senior pilots could use one week of vacation, and, due to our ability to slide the vacation, knock out two 14 day trips that were in separate bid months. With 36 days, that worked out to most of the year at full pay.

2. Junior pilots were not able to utilize all their vacation, with reserve or shorter trips, they got the time off, but weren't really getting compensated for a weeks worth, etc.

For me, our current plan offers more flexibility and has been overall better. How does yours work at the two ends of the bell curve that I mentioned?

vacation
 

ptarmigan...

I agree that your plan offers more flexibility. If you don't have the bid pattern the corresponds to your vacation award, you won't be able to "max" it out. For the most part, being at the bottom of the list, you can conflict a full week every time (if you really don't care what you fly or sit reserve). If we could slide the days either way (how far can you slide them at federal?), it would give everyone more flexibility in bidding.

The name of the game for vacations here is conflict bidding. That is the reason we only have 3 hrs/day on days off. The more you conflict, the more ups will have to hire. I prefer more time off for the most part, but if they offer me 62 hours for a week of vacation, I would have to seriously consider it then. At 3 hrs/day, I want to drop a trip instead.

Basic difference in vacation...we have days that don't depend on trip credit, you have hours of vacation credit. Both ways work, there is just a different way to game the system to maximize time away from work.

JMO

Pilot7576

will UPS buy your vacation + 24 hours if they need staffing say during peak? Buying vacations can be a huge if u elect too...an 8 day vacation period is 48 hours + 24 becomes 72 hours of pay for a weeks vacation if sold..NICE..again if you elect too...

It all depends.......Our vacation day vlaue is 6 hours per day.

Lets say a Junior pilot has 14 days vacation for the year in two 7 day blocks........a summer period in JUN and a winter period.

His total vacation BANK value for the year is 84 hours ,
14 days x 6hrs per day = 84 hours in Vacation bank.

How the pilot manipulates his bank is up to him.

Lets say the pilot bids and is awarded an INTL trip in June worth 72 hours.
He has 7 days of vacation worth 42 hours.......He can slide his days +- 5days to conflict or deconflict with that 72 hour trip.

If he conflicts with that trip, the trip gets dropped, he gets paid the credit value of that trip &72 hrs and his vacation bank is debited 72 hours......so for his next vacation period, he has 7 days worth of vacation but only 12 hours left in his vacation bank.

If he deconflicts his vacation from that trip, he flies the trip gets paid for the trip and now still has 84 hours of vacation bank intact.........although he does not get any vacation for this month but that was his choice.................but when his next 7 days of vacation comes up he can now has 84 hours of bank for a 7 day period....................in other words he can drop a whole 84 hours worth of trips....and get credit for them.

Another option after the monthly bids close.....if he wishes to drop or conflict with the 72 hour trip......he does this by sliding the vacation, but he doesn't want to go into deficit vacation bank.........i.e. he only wants 42 hours deducted, he can request a Make Up vacation trip out of the open time.......he can request a 30 hour trip (for exmaple) that fits his needs and it is awarded to him per seniority...

If the pilot is a workaholic......he can purposely deconflict all his vacation for both periods and at the end of the years get paid 84 hours or any positive vacation bank that he may have left.

Also when the company is short manned.like we have been for the last 8 years...........the company often offers to Buy back vacation. If they offer vacation buy back it is awarded on a first come firt serve ( seniority kind of) basis. You sell back whater vacation value you have for that month....@ 6 hrs per day.....like 42 for the above example. The company will add 24 hours to it for a total of 66 and pay you cash on the 15th of the following month.

We have other beenyoe like the ability to not only slide the vacation period + - 5 days but we can also Expand the vacation period.....into other trips but not to exceed 6 hour above your vacation day value.

Complicated but as you can see, very flexible with options for both the Work a holics and the TIME off junkies.......

You can do similar stuff if you want to bid reserve for a month when you have vacation. You can maximize $$ or Maximize time off..........your choice.

What is your reserve like. Ours isnt great but not bad. Essentially available 12 hours a day but have to get to the airport in an hour.

rsv
 

MEMA300...

Ours is basically the same...went to 15 days vice 16...twelve hour callout versus 13..guarantee is still 75 hours though so that is a benny. Max 3 hr extension for duty, no turning out again outside your orig call window and some percentage moves that prevent turning you back out unless their coverage drops below a certain level.

Can preference trips on rsv (for commuters who want to get out on the company nickel instead of wasting away in the pad). Radar list (similar to your leveling) that uses tafb to keep away the strategic sick calls to avoid crappy trips.

Reserve lines are constructed to mirror the trip construction for the fleet and domicile. So domestic gets a lot of week on/week off and intl gets a lot of 15 day blocks.

All in all, a huge improvement (just getting close to where you're at now). I think rsv will go fairly senior once people start feeding at the trough again and realize it's one less day with one less hour for the same guarantee as line holders.

JMO

Pilot7576

Max buyback EOY 40%?

Pilot: I guess I'm not explaining it very well. If you drop a trip due to vacation here you do get paid for it, it is part of your BLG (Bid Line GUARANTEE).

IF you drop trips worth more than the vacation you have, then you still get the BLG, but your vacation bank goes to negative. It can be offset with next year's vacation OR you can pick a trip(s) that you want to fly to replenish your vacation bank. It is your choice.

I think our systems are fairly similar we just use different terminology.

You are Correct........I was talking in basics,,,,,,

vacation
 

fxdx...

We don't have a vacation bank, so it doesn't go negative. If you drop an 80 hr trip with your 7 day vacatiion, you get credit for the entire trip. The company can attempt to backfill on your days avail (days not covered by vacation), but regardless, you STILL get the 80 hours even if they cannot adjust ur line.

Pilot7576

Pilot,

We have both days and hours in our vacation system. At 10 yrs you have 29 days of vaca at 6hrs per day for a total of 174 hrs for the year (2 1/2 four week months off a year). You will get every hour of vacation you have.

We can bid vaca in blocks of 7 days or more. If I have a 7 day vaca block, I can drop almost anything I want if I can hold the line that has the block I want to drop. ie. I can drop as little (bid a line with no conflict) or as much (bid a single 72hour trip) as I want. If I use more than the 42hrs associated with my 7 day block I will be short my next block of vaca that same amount. The diff is that I can go in and pic a trip of my choice to make up that amount. It's not up to scheds to give me a trip they want. Or just be a few hours short on the next block.

We can make up the shortage but I think it's kinda dumb to work an extra day to get an extra day off... :)

Also, it doesn't matter if you conflict with vaca block or not you can still move your vaca to drop the amount of your vaca block plus 6 hrs. Great for the junior guys as they get every hour of vaca every year.

Company can also buy back our vaca with a 24hr premium. I believe they pay you the next bid month. Don't know as I always use all of mine. Also, they company will buy back up to 40% of your intitial vaca bank if you choose not to conflict all your hours for the year.

Past....

"We don't have a vacation bank, so it doesn't go negative. If you drop an 80 hr trip with your 7 day vacatiion, you get credit for the entire trip. The company can attempt to backfill on your days avail (days not covered by vacation), but regardless, you STILL get the 80 hours even if they cannot adjust ur line."

It seems like a VTO vacation line with no expansion or buffer zone. I was JS with a UPS captain and he showed his calendar line where his vacation conflicted with a trip. UPS made him fly the first part of the trip and then DH him back to Louisville so that he was in base hours before his vacation week started. In his case they had no problem "back filling" him to work the rest of the month minus his 7 days vacation:( for a slacker like myself this would be a serious QOL issue

Looks like everyone is typing at once!

:)

Mine is bigger than yours ... blah, blah, blah!

Here's the botom line: FedEx and UPS are at the top of the heap. Period. How long will it last? Who knows. Looks like cargo is the future in this business and few will dispute that.

Tie breaker: FedEx folks don't wear hats or funny brown suits.

Therefore -- We win! Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

It's better to look good than feel good!

LOL!
NKA

Brown has its advantages
 

I would disagree, wearing brown has several advantages; if you have to change a tire after you get back from your 12 day trip, oil stains blend right in on brown slacks.
When the hotel comes to pick you up they can more easily identify you on the curb because of your "brownness". :rolleyes:
No one will confuse you with "real" airline pilots. (All "real" airline pilots wear blue, right??).
You won't confuse your uniform slacks with your interview suit.
Lastly and most important. You match the uniform of your local UPS delivery guy (except for the shorts :D )

The source observed, how one member identified himself, as the attorney for the Negotiating committee, was arguing that: “UPS should have never offered such an exuberant Signing Bonus,this bonus is unheard of in the industry”.

Another Member who identified himself as the Chairman argued :

We got a contract that pays more than UPS, $1 DOLLAR MORE

UPS contract has its own merits and I am very happy for them, they established a new Standard and we should be thankful to them..

Well, I think our Negotiating Committee should not be promoting our TA, by trashing UPS contract , without even reading it. We have not obtained a contract to be proud of, unless you are a Free Loader/non member.

Only in the 15th year we make $1.25 more than UPS, but their minimum guarantee is higher, ( 75 hrs a months ) even for reserve, and they get paid 13 times a year.

They still collect barfines?