New TSA jumpseat rule?
 

I was jumpseating offline out of MEM last week (not in uniform - going home), and I entered the TSA screening area. I showed the agent my badge explaining that I was jumpseating, and the agent asked me for a boarding pass. I explained that I had to get to the gate and the gate agent would issue me a boarding pass to jumpseat out. The TSA agent insisted that I have a pass, and I replied (politely) that I had gone through this checkpoint numerous times without a boarding pass. He called for a supervisor who came over and confirmed that now I had to go to the airline ticket counter, obtain a GATE PASS, then come to the TSA screening area, and finally go to the gate in hopes of scoring a jumpseat. I started out towards the ticket counter, and the supervisor who was escorting me out of the TSA area, noticed her supervisor and she called him over. He said that I could still go through screening as in previous times, but the rules were in the process of being changed and that soon I WOULD be required to have a "gate pass" before approaching the TSA area.
Is anyone else aware of this new TSA level of (dare I say) harassment?
Does anyone know if this applies if you are in uniform?
Enjoy!

Keep in mind where you were. The last time I went through security at MEM, the TSA lady told me I couldn't have paper money in my pockets and wasn't going to let me through screening until she was sure my pockets were empty. I didn't argue. She had me by 60lbs.

I was in uniform with a ticket for a d/h flight and have been told by MEM TSA that my FedEx ID was not valid and had to show him a government issued ID. :(

I asked what I would need if I was just jumpseating and he said my FedEx ID was fine as long as I was in uniform! :eek:

The rule that has been in place for a long time now is that you must show a boarding pass/security document to enter the sterile area if your airline does not serve that airport (as a passenger 121 airline). Basically, if your airline doesn't serve the terminal, you need a security document. This rule is long standing, it is just VERY loosely enforced.
Case in point, my old airline had "Operating as US Airways Express" printed on the back which fooled enough TSA agents into letting us through since we could say we were a US Airways airline even if our particular regional didn't fly there.
Also, went through RDU TSA the other day with an ORF SIDA badge which does not say CREW anywhere on it. All depends on who you see..... no standardization.

Since 9-11, I always go to the ticket counter and get a dummy pass first. They can check the load for you and some will list you so that when you get to the gate, you are already in the system and it seems to take less effort for the gate agent.

Boss Boss Boss Boss
 

How levels of "supervision" are required? Was the second supe the top dog, or were there still higher levels of "supes".

Sounds like good advice, but I'd like to know what the rule is so that if I see 100 people in line at the DL counter, I can make a calculated and informed decision as to which way to go: TSA screening or DL counter. If I only have an hour 'til boarding time, I'm not sure I want to get in line behind someone who needs to be rerouted to get to Tokyo. :rolleyes:

TSA being a government agency, I'm sure there are/were numerous layers of unseen "supes." I'm guessing most of them would have varying degrees of accuracy in their answers. :eek:

"As a UNIFORMED pilot, liquid and gel restrictions do not apply. Current TSA rules do not require a boarding pass to pass through screening, however if the local airport requires a SIDA badge, you may be required to get a jumpseat boarding pass from the ticket counter (File a detailed Jumpseat and Security Report with your respective committees)."

From the ALPA.ORG Jumpseat website.

Honestly, just say 'oh okay' and go to a different checkpoint/concourse and take the moving sidewalk backto your gate. That's what I've always done.

Go to another airline's counter with no (or very short) line. Get a dummy boarding pass. Pass TSA, then go to your gate of choice.

ANGFDX,

Post 10 and 11 are good suggestions. They've always worked for me.

Another thing you'll come across once in a while is the random TSA agent who wants your airline ID out of the little plastic sleeve...

Standardization is maybe not the best word to describe the TSA. ;)

I've had the same issue with MEM TSA. Tried to go through out of uniform with company badge. I need to see your boarding pass, she says. I had my nonrev ticket in my back pocket so I just pulled it out and showed it to her. I didn't feel like fighting it.

Same thing happened to me in MSP about a month ago. I was out of uniform nonreving with my gf. I get up to the TSA agent and he goes I need to see your boarding pass that you just put in your pocket (I printed it at the kiosk right by the security line). He went off on this long spill about how he has to check the boarding pass in case I get flag for "extra screening" on my boarding pass and how if they miss it they have to go to the gate and to extra screening at the gate. I was just sure whatever. Believe me if I see the extra screening on my boarding pass I will get through security some other way.

That said I almost always commute/nonrev in uniform. This way I can almost always avoid the boarding pass issue, the extra screening, and the nude photo booth. I am one of those that really really dislikes the TSA.

One more thing to add..

please hurry and get the Known Crewmember nationwide! Let it be used at all times when in uniform, not just when working the flight. And my company join the rest of the world and get on board with this program.

Uniform should have NO bearing on this. The ID/credentials is what matters not a costume that anyone can buy online etc.

You're a wise man. This rule's been in place for years. As a transcon commuter, sometimes it bit me but mostly it didn't. I've taken to wearing a uniform shirt to get all the advantages of a crewmber at the checkpoint and then changing into a nice shirt on the other side. A minor inconvenience compared to the chance encounter with a petty person who's been given just enough authority to be a royal PITA.

I was told you are supposed to be an operating crew member to go through with your ID. I guess the only way they can determine (or think) you are operating is when you are in uniform/costume. I just wear it through security and hit the BR and change. Don't try to use logic or common sense with these guys! Just won't work!

key word, "should have no bearing". I cut & pased the quotes from Pistole, and other officials that appeared in the ALPA mag that highlighted known crewmember, wrote a letter to ALPA, TSA & FEDEX security asking why we needed to be in uniform if the whole program is based on potive "identity".

TSA, officials were quoted on & on about the program basis being positive identity, and enhancing effieciencies by routing these "known" crewmembers through an expedited process enhancing efficiencies of TSA official processing pax.

But the reuirment to wear a uniform contradicts their positions on positive identity & efficiency.

No word from TSA, but our FDX ALPA security officials responded that they tried very hard to not have the in uniform requirmement, being that the program is based on positive identity not a white shirt & dark pants. But the TSA said they were worried about public perception if they let us go thru not in uniform. ALPA did not want to die on their sword pushing the issue on non-uniform, and pressed for implementation- in hopes that they would come to their senses as the program proliferates to more airports.

Personally if I was John Q public, and I knew that 25 of the 125 people in front of me were crewmembers and could be in another line, thereby expediting my processing, my perception of the TSA would be worse than it already is.

Drives me crazy- cotradicting policy statements and planned inefficiency-plus I would prefer to keep my uniform clean so I don't have to pack so much on long trips.

The real bottom line is in this paragraph....

"if the local airport requires a SIDA badge, you may be required to get a jumpseat boarding pass..."

It is up to the local airport manager. The TSA has a million of these little statements in their regs and policies. The airport managers have a lot of influence over the screening process when it comes to crew members. However, that doesn't keep the TSA Mall Cops from making it difficult just because they can.....

I agree 100%. I was more on the argument of when KCM goes nationwide I will be able to use it when I'm commuting or when the day includes a deadhead. Unlike the current rules when using the SIDA badge.

Received this from our ALPA Jumpseat Chairman:

"This is NOT correct and we can't fix it without specific NAMES of TSA rental folks. Airline crew DOES NOT need a boarding pass when in possession of an air carrier ID. They may ask you for a second form of ID but that is it. There is no "spool up" time for changes and supervisors don't have the authority to waive any change requirements or make people "get ready" for changes.

A uniform is only required if you intend to use a CrewPASS terminal, or if you need to be exempted from the liquid and gel rule.

A phone call will correct those involved...but we have to have names.

Next time I'll be armed with a note pad and politely "take names" to pass on for follow up.

BTW - thanks for the excellent various options and ideas on how to approach the TSA screening hurdle.

Enjoy!:D

Make it Easy - Uniform
 

I always go through Security/TSA in my uniform and then change in a bathroom on the inside. Works great whether I'm on a DH ticket or just J/S. If I have a ticket I don't even show it to them. This is at most airports and I haven't had much experience with the idiots in MEM. In uniform I go to the head of the line, or the special crew line. Makes it quick and easy....besides then I don't have to take off the belt, shoes etc.

I previously had this problem at about 3 airports (plus an all AA terminal at DFW), and not problems at the other 50 or so airports I went through. The local TSA often does their own thing.

Being in uniform is very helpful for security/customs/immigration, and has often helped me get better seats on an airplane, especially when I am a paying customer. For me, wearing the uniform when I travel is worth it. Internationally it is often even more helpful than in the US.

cliff
HHN

How ironic ... in uniform the liquid rule is waived. But out of uniform that bottle of shampoo will be confiscated since you are now dangerous ???

Whatever ...

:rolleyes:

Yeah, that'll fix the problem.....

As arduous as it may seem, and I know how we all hate paperwork, whenever discrepancies such as this occur, it is our obligation to notify the TSA of these discrepencies. Yes, I'm well aware of how bureaucracies operate, and it oftentimes feels like your p#ssing in the wind when you send off a report, but if there is no accountability for the correct application of procedures, then you'll constantly be going, "OK, what d@ckdance do I need to do at THIS checkpoint to get through...." Personally, I already have too many things to think about. I'm getting older and more curmudgeonly every day.....

Ah-h-h the Gestapo. Don't 'ya just love 'em

ANGFDX,

Have you ever received anything from the tsa?

I have searched all over their web-site and ALPA's. No where have I found any information actually written down on what is required by crew members at security. I would really like to see a page of the rules for crew members. Have one section be screening in uniform, one screening out of uniform, and one for the known crew member line. On that sheet they need to address all the common issues, boarding pass, belt, shoes, laptop, liquids, nude machine, ect. Also, the big thing would be this same sheet would be distributed to all pilots and all screeners. This way so when there is a question, the screeners will pull out the same paper we have. This way we know the rules, they know the rules, and the rules are the same through ALL airports.

FYI - I jumpseated out of the MEM terminal last night. I passed through the security check point in civilian attire with no problems. I used the crew line and my FDX ID.

[QUOTE=flyou11;1116796]ANGFDX,

Have you ever received anything from the tsa?

I have searched all over their web-site and ALPA's. No where have I found any information actually written down on what is required by crew members at security. I would really like to see a page of the rules for crew members. Have one section be screening in uniform, one screening out of uniform, and one for the known crew member line. On that sheet they need to address all the common issues, boarding pass, belt, shoes, laptop, liquids, nude machine, ect. Also, the big thing would be this same sheet would be distributed to all pilots and all screeners. This way so when there is a question, the screeners will pull out the same paper we have. This way we know the rules, they know the rules, and the rules are the same through ALL airports.[

Potential terrorists would also love to have such a set of rules.

There are reasons why the procedures are different at various airports, as well as why they often seem to change from time to time at the same airport. If you put some thought into it you could probably figure out why.

I am not a fan of the TSA, but there is some method to their madness in regard to security procedures continually evolving.

That is understandable. However, we should still need to know the rules too. They aren't protecting the President, they're protecting the flying public (in theory). This would be the equivalent to a teacher saying turn in this paper for me to grade. However, she will change the rules as she grades so you really don't know what to do to get that A. The traveling passengers all know what to expect, as to the "terrorist". Their regulations should be able to distinguish us vs them. In summary we need to know what to expect as we walk up to the security line, not guessing what is it going to be this time.

I did send an email to the tsa using the basic email address (and only address) I found on their web-site. Needless to say I got a generic reply back telling me all about the 3-1-1 rule, the background of that rule, how to be prepared for that rule, and to contact the DOT if I have any complaints. Not even close to the question I asked. Even the email staff is as clueless as the rest of the organization.

So, they publish the rules to make you happy and the "terrorist" can read the same rules so they can circumvent them and every one is happy! Is this what you are asking for?

IMHO the flying public has pretty clear guidelines published on TSA web site and well advertised expectations at the terminal. Just take time to scan the little signs while in line for the first agent. When I walk into a terminal, I should not have to approach the TSA area wondering what kind of games we'll be playing today to get through. Can you imagine the flying public's reaction if they had to guess at what the rules might be today? Should properly identified and verified crew members expect any less? Sure, I could wear my uniform and then change, but what greater security is implied by my wearing that uniform? Is it the uniform or the ID that I present every time that indicates that I am not a security risk. Having to go through an increased security check because I'm not in uniform makes my ID meaningless.
As an active crew member I have been screened by numerous government agencies. Never mind that I've been held military security clearances that most of the TSA folks could not hold. Those screenings should allow a level of understanding that I am not the threat. Just saying...:rolleyes:

The smurfs are simply wrong. If your badge says 'crew' on it, you do not need any kind of boarding document. Next time, stand your ground and make them pay for their ignorance.

The TSA gives OPERATING (meaning you are flying the plane or serving drinks on the plane that day) crew members a pass on fluids and access to the SIDA area. Not deadheading crew members or jumpseaters! So, just being a airline crew member heading out on vacation or headed home on a jumpseat doesn't meet the requirement. You guys don't read any of the posts, you just rant. Wear your uniform and then to the TSA you are an operating crew member (or at least they can't prove you aren't) and you will glide through the crew line with no problems. The costume implies you are working not that you are safe to enter (they check your ID for that).

I posted this earlier in this thread and the very next post some guy was complaining about IDing pilots, bla bla bla. It doesn't make a poo if you are a pilot. Its depends on your work status that day.

This just isn't that hard.

Pretty much echo what ANGFDX said. The passengers know exactly what to expect. I just want to know what to expect each time too. Also, it isn't like this is getting us around security we will still proceed through security. So that really isn't the issue. On that note though, there is a new development where we will be able to bypass security in a separate line with our badge. However, those rules ARE CLEARLY WRITTEN ON-LINE.

The system should be made to protect us and the flying public from harm. If their system designed correctly then the rules they have should be able to differentiate between the good and the bad.

Agreed for the most part. However jumpseating/commuting/vacation/meeting the family at the gate/ect., with a crew badge and maybe a secondary form of gov't id we should be able to get through. No boarding pass required. Now, their are very well defined rules regarding the nude machine, shoes, and liquids for being out of uniform. Although I think those should be changed to, at least those rules appear to be consistent airport to airport.

Yep, we're still the same person whether we're operating, commuting, on vacation, in uniform or out.

My answer to that is - expect to be treated just like any other passenger unless you are part of the "operating crew". Is that what you want? Because, that is what you will get if you press the issue with the TSA.

Uniforms are easy to obtain and ID's are lost or stolen everyday :eek:

You should be able to get through but that's not what the rules say. So griping about it to a TSA agent isn't going to get it changed. Like my Dad used to say, "Wish in one hand and **** in the other and see which gets full quickest."