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golfandfly 01-19-2013 12:29 PM


Originally Posted by TonyC (Post 1333766)
You've chosen an interesting example that has an interesting connection with the "Hong Kong 4." They chose to forgo the easy route of submission to The Company's proffer of a settlement, and instead have risked their livelihoods on standing for principle.

When Auburn Calloway attempted the hijacking on April 7, 1994, ALPA was in its infancy at Federal Express. After several failed attempts, ALPA won a vote in 1992 to be the Federal Express Pilots' first Collective Bargaining Agent. However, challenges by Federal Express and an anti-union pilot group delayed certification until 1993. Contract negotiations then began, and led to the NMB releasing both parties to self-help in 1995.

Prior to the purchase of The Flying Tiger Line by Federal Express, one pilot was, shall we say, outspoken about organizing the pilots. Without a union, the Federal Express pilots would have no advocate in the case of a seniority list integration. (Of course, we all know how smoothly that went, with lawsuits continuing for decades.) Based on Compuserve postings made by that pilot which were illegally obtained by another pilot's wife and forwarded to Fred Smith, Barney Barnhart's manager ordered him to undergo a psychiatric evaluation. Barney refused.

Barney was advised by ALPA to undergo the psychiatric evaluation in order to keep his job. The Company even offered to let Barney choose the doctor. Barney refused. Barney was terminated for insubordination. Barney sued Federal Express for wrongful termination. Here's the connection to Calloway: the judge who heard his case was the same judge who heard U.S. vs Auburn Calloway.

(I don't know if ALPA represented Calloway in his termination. Since we didn't have a CBA, there wasn't really a process to defend. Even by today's rules, it should have been a simple matter to insure he was afforded due process. It should be pretty obvious, though, that it's difficult to show up for work when you're serving 2 consecutive life sentences in Atwater, CA.)


Now, here's the connection he has to the Hong Kong 4. He could have bowed to pressure, swallowed his pride, violated his conscience, and submitted to a psychiatric evaluation, and kept his job. But he didn't. He stood on principle, knowing he was in the right, knowing that it could cost him his career with Federal Express. The Hong Kong 4 could also have confessed to doing wrong, subjected themselves to the monetary penalties and punitive actions, and kept their jobs. But they didn't. They stood on principle, knowing they were in the right, and knowing that it could cost them their career with FedEx Express.

So, many people will look back in hindsight and say, "Well, looks like Barney shoulda taken the deal." While you're looking back, look at our first Collective Bargaining Agreement and thank him for this paragraph:
CBA §15.G. Limitation of Medical Procedures
1. Flight management shall not require a pilot to submit to a psychological or psychiatric examination.
The story of the Hong Kong 4 is not over yet.






.

Great story, and great for Barney. In the end, we have a clause in our contract and he lost his job. There are certain things worth standing up to, and quite possibly this was one of them. When anyone has the right to demand that you take a psych eval to keep your job, that may certainly be one of the times you tell them to pound sand.

It is my understanding that ALPA thought that these pilots should take the settlement. Not that they were wrong, just that there was a very big risk to their career if they went to arbitration. They weren't asking anyone to be Barney. We can get this cleaned up in negotiations hopefully.

R1200RT 01-19-2013 07:55 PM

Not 100% sure, but of the Hong Kong 4 the two that have lost their arbitrations did not use ALPA lawyers, one took a deal, and the last guy that used ALPA is still waiting on the final ruling. And I can tell you he is very happy about the way ALPA processed his case.

Good Luck Devo!

MeXC 01-20-2013 03:25 PM

“Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against – then you’ll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We’re after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you’d better get wise to it. There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now, that’s the system, Mr. Rearden, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.”

whitekeys 01-20-2013 04:32 PM


Originally Posted by MeXC (Post 1334954)
“Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against – then you’ll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We’re after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you’d better get wise to it. There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now, that’s the system, Mr. Rearden, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.”

That's a familiar quote. Wasn't it from that book, ALPA Shrugged? (actually, I hear they're not exactly shrugging right now).

Lineslug 01-20-2013 06:35 PM


Originally Posted by whitekeys (Post 1334974)
That's a familiar quote. Wasn't it from that book, ALPA Shrugged? (actually, I hear they're not exactly shrugging right now).


ALPA Shrugged :D

Good one

Redeyz 01-25-2013 01:14 PM

If you don't know history...

I think very few of us will ever know the true culpability or non-culpability of the HKG 4. To speculate is folly.

However, what is clear is that there is plenty of culpability as to how we have arrived at ALPA spending many of our Assoc dollars on the defense and re-negotiation of the FDA section of the CBA.

DW BC would be the first in a long line. Along with Company negotiators proffering FDA v 1.0 and v 1.1. It was a turd from the get go and should have been voted down. (Which brings us to the 68% that voted in favor of it...TWICE). This section of the CBA has been sub-standard since its inception and will always put an inordinate amount of drag on negotiating capital going forward.

Hopefully, this is a lesson members will learn from and not be so short sighted to grab the 2.5% cola FDX is offering to help swallow the FDA pills. Force them to refer to page 2 in the negotiating manual.

If you don't know history... We'll be saddled with another fiasco and blowing more $ on legal defense.

Iwa Washi 01-25-2013 02:25 PM

"Which brings us to the 68% that voted in favor of it"

I think there is an even more disturbing statistic when it comes to the vote on LOA2. Sure it passed 62% to 38%, but what many seem to forget is that only 25% of the membership even bothered to vote in the first place. Approximately 75% of us did not vote at all. I call that pathetic.

With that much apathy, I sometimes wonder what chance we really have going against the company, barring a fundamental shift in the attitude of our membership. The next time your coworker in the cockpit complains about how things are, please keep in mind that there is a three out of four chance that he or she never put their money where their mouth is.

We are not a united crew force; we are a herd of sheep.



Special Message Line
July 10, 2008

Results of the Amendments to FDA LOA Ballot

The voting for the Amendments to the LOA Regarding FDA Assignments in CDG and HKG closed this morning at 10:00 a.m. Eastern. The LOA has been ratified.

The results of the balloting are as follows:

Votes Cast: 1100 (25.1% participation)
Votes For: 690 (62.78%)
Votes Against: 409 (37.22%)

The MEC would like to thank the pilots that participated in this vote.

Gunter 01-25-2013 03:44 PM


Originally Posted by Redeyz (Post 1338639)
DW BC would be the first in a long line. Along with Company negotiators proffering FDA v 1.0 and v 1.1. It was a turd from the get go and should have been voted down.

Don't forget the MEC.

They are the ones that gave BC his marching orders. DW was the their mouthpiece.

Finally, the MEC decided to send it out for a vote and sell it as a good thing.

Who was on the MEC then?

FlyByNyte 01-25-2013 03:54 PM


Originally Posted by Iwa Washi (Post 1338707)
what many seem to forget is that only 25% of the membership even bothered to vote in the first place.

Votes Cast: 1100 (25.1% participation)
Votes For: 690 (62.78%)
Votes Against: 409 (37.22%)
/I]

APATHY APATHY APATHY...25.1 percent! And that's a big turn out for other votes among this group. WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE TO WAKE UP THE FEDEX PILOTS, AND GET THEM TO UNDERSTAND CONTRACT LABOR!! I was disappointed then at the turnout and now I am reminded!:mad:

Shaggy1970 01-25-2013 03:54 PM


Originally Posted by Iwa Washi (Post 1338707)

The results of the balloting are as follows:

Votes Cast: 1100 (25.1% participation)
Votes For: 690 (62.78%)
Votes Against: 409 (37.22%)

The MEC would like to thank the pilots that participated in this vote.[/I]

Let me get this straight, you guys have 4541 pilots and 1100 total voted?

I am so glad I am in the IPA.


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