Average Month For UPS Pilot
 

I hear a lot about how poor the QOL is for UPS folks. Putting commuting aside, how does the typical month look like for a junior FO (considering you're not on the street). I'm assuming the junior guys are typically ANC based? How do the trips usually look?

I am actually curious too, especially of how the domestic pairings and lines look at UPS, considering that FDX is looking for improvements in efficiency.

How many legs in and out of the hubs do you fly a night? Also curious of layover times.

The average month for the junior at UPS is sit at home and collect $385 per week in unemployment. Once that runs out, hope you don't lose your house and your spouse.

Point noted, Thanks.

If you're not furloughed, you're commuting to Anchorage and sitting in a crashpad away from your family for 17-18 days a month- unless you decided to move there, which is insane because you should've learned your lesson to never move anywhere for UPS because they will furlough your butt in Alaska.

Being junior (10 years) at UPS is nowhere you want to be.

I'm pretty junior on the whale, and I don't sit in my crashpad for 17-18 days a month. I always bid VTOs, and usually end up with a couple of 12 day trips in a bid period (2 months). Sometimes I'll get a 8-9 day trip, with an out and back to PVG or HKG thrown in there during a month. It depends on what's left over, and how many senior to me go on vacation during that bid period.

Back when I chose to stand reserve in ANC, I would usually opt for two seven day reserve periods in a month. That's 14 days away from home.

During this next bid period, I have two 1 week vacation periods. I managed to conflict almost the entire VTO line I was awarded. I'm flying a total of (2) four day trips in the entire bid period (2 months), and they both start with a commercial deadhead to HNL from my home. Not too shabby for a junior guy.

I know things like reality can be annoying, but...

I was furloughed from USAir for eight (8) years, and had I gone back, I would now be making $85/hour with nearly 24 years seniority instead of your $172/hour.

Cry me a river little girl. You sniveling little....

Liar! You're making that up!

Maybe these miserable little girls need to go to the bottom of the list at the glorious legacy carriers so that their true value is appreciated...oh wait...there are thousands still on furlough there and those still on property are making well over $50K less than they are with far lesser benefits and prospects. Nevermind....they're SPECIAL.

Spare me.

Junior ANC FO here...I just counted up the days I spent away from home this year so far...Through the use of trip carry-in and vacation conflict, along with a few schedule displacements by management, I've spent just over 8 days away from home each 28-day bid period...live in SDF so that helps the commute up to ANC. I don't pick up open time, so that helps keep me home.

I know Archie isn't that Junior ... being in the bottom half doesn't make you really junior. Junior is down where there are just 2 lines and RSV left to bid on. So your example may be true for you, but not quite "average" ... :cool:

Same for B2pilot, if you were REALLY junior, you wouldn't even know the meaning of conflict ... I don't yet. :eek:

But its not all bad. A real junior puke like myself sitting mostly 2 week blocks of RSV and an occasional line can be home 50% of the time. That will take creative use of "personal time" and vacation. But it can be done.

Archie also screwed up his math on RSV days too ... it is 15 days in a 28 day period, usually 8 + 7 so that's 13 days off. How he got 14 at home while commuting is beyond my math skills, whatever. :confused: There will be times when 15 days of RSV will require 18 days away from home due to commuting. And quite possibly it may work out to only 13 days away if you get a long trip early and get released early ... but it is rare.

But honestly bassfishr, by the time UPS hires again, this will most likely change ...

The trips are varied in ANC. Some just go to SDF or PVG and back. Some go around the world and return in 2 weeks. Being really junior means you will see mostly short trips.

But if you are really junior and live in ANC, certain RSV shifts would be the way to stay home a lot !

I appreciate all the info.

Average Month For UPS Pilot
 

Speaking as a guy who would love to live in ANC again I'd just bid RSV all the time so some commuter doesn't have to. Anyone want to write me a recommendation? :D

Here's hoping UPS will see the light and hire turboprop trash when the time comes. I'll make sure and highlight my ANC address and 907 numbering my cover letter.

Yea good idea,highlight that ANC area code and address,you'll be in SDF
or ONT so fast you won't know what happened.
Oh yea, take the move package,its awesome

True Dat !

:D

UPS Schedules
 

The schedules at UPS are nowhere near the great quality of life I enjoyed at a 'Legacy' carrier prior to 9-11.

But the schedules at UPS are far, far, superior to the schedules I flew when that Legacy carrier went bankrupt and our contract was null and void.

Rott

Schedules are bad as a junior pilot at UPS unless you live in domicile where you won't work all of your rsv days (save the A-300). Once you're senior enough to do some conflicting, you can turn one week of vacation into three weeks off without a problem (internationally especially).

If it's time off you want, you'll get it at UPS, but it might take you awhile if there's no growth at the airline.

Bitter much?

I know this area of APC is often confused as the FDX forum, but I'm pretty sure it says cargo. Maybe you should stay in the Major forum...

QOL is the best part of the job. Don't confuse mgt/labor relations with QOL. I'm very near the bottom and live in SDF. I do morning turns and hots. Leave home at 2 am and home by 11 am usually. Not an easy schedule if you don't live in domicile, but if you do, it's fantastic. When I get reserve I've never worked more than 8 days in a 28 day period.

Time off is the best perk followed by pay. As mentioned if you live out of domicile it gets more difficult. Yes we have furloughs, but it took an odd combination of the worst economic downturn since WWII, age 60 changing, and the elimination of two fleet types and all the FEs to cause it. It was 109 guys furloughed and all but 44 have been offered recall. Anyone who says this job isn't one of the best in aviation is a fool.

How do the future retirements look like for UPS? Any hope for reserve/junior/furlough guys?

Absolutely correct. And if you're junior, the two are simply reversed. ;)

Correct again. Reserve in domicile is the best deal if you're looking for QOL above all else in an airline pilot job.

One year I worked 180 hours on reserve, and I recently spoke to a captain in Anchorage who flew 80 hours last year.

I am not sure how smart it is, that during negotiations we got guys coming on here and bragging about how little they work, how many days off they have in a given bid period, how much they are getting paid for the work that they don't do. How about showing a little SA folks.

No 'dog in the fight' in this thread here, but my line of thinking is, it doesn't matter how little a reserve has been called in recently if a million dollars of freight needs to be moved and there's nobody else to do it on time.

Spare tires on cars don't go 15,000 miles a year like the other tires. But when you need 'em, . . .

Nice sentiment, but do you understand that they have a complete statistical picture that has been sliced and diced a hundred ways?
Do you think any of this escapes their scrutiny? It doesn't matter what anyone says, they have more numbers on this than most of us can imagine.

The company already knows this and if they don't I'm sure Andy Murphy will make a slide or 2 on it and give it to the company to use against us.

No $hit Sherlock. Just saying, this isn't the place to be gloating about this kind of crap.

I got to admit, this was pretty funny. Just so you know, Andy doesn't make slides that the EB doesn't ask for. Don't blame Andy, is all I am saying.

I'm not sure it's gloating. There's so much anti-UPS rhetoric on this forum, it's hard not to sing praises to the few good aspects of this job.

To answer the original question:

I am one of the most junior ANC MD11 capts. I have held the last or second to last lines in my seat for the last year and a half. They are almost always VTO lines and there are usually pretty crappy for commuting. I've noticed that the bottom FO is almost always a VTO line. I think it's safe to say my schedule would closely align with a new hire's if they were assigned the MD11 in ANC. I think it's quite different on the 747 in ANC.

Anyway, in the last year, I have averaged 13.5 days away from home including commuting from the Midwest. My worst pay period was 18 days and my best was 2 days (vacation). This is out of a 28 day pay period. It is a challenge to say the least but it is manageable. It would be amazing if you chose to live in domicile.

Good post, the key to a happy life may well be living in domicile.

There is no doubt that pilots are getting more productivity squeezed out of them over time. Some may find this unpleasant, but it may be essential to their long term survival.

Nice try, but the last turboprop driver that we hired was in 2005....and that was a girl (commutair, I believe). So, I think that you are gonna need 121 time or at least turbojet pic.

121 experience unless you are female, minority or want to go into management, then C-172 time will probably work!

Average Month For UPS Pilot
 

Maybe I'll get lucky and someone involved with hiring will move to my preferred outstations here and I'll just be his ride to the DEN ramp for his commute.....

Or take advice from a wise, (sort-of) old owl: bite the bullet, quit KY and go get hired at OO, RP or CZ. Get your time there and THEN apply at 5X

I'd love to. At the same time since I have an imminent upgrade it seems wise to get that 1,000 MTPIC box checked before leaving. Beyond that my first choice would be NAC in ANC. Or perhaps USA Jet. We'll see.

The last year we did any hiring was 2007. I know of at least one from my class that came from flying Dash-8s ... FWIW ... he wasn't a girl. ;)

That made me lol, thanks! Nevertheless, HE surely came from a 121 tp operator. Just a note to tallflyer about the importance of that on your resume'.

Well, I'm a 2007 hire…in the bottom 300. I'm sitting about 146 out of 210 on the Whale FO list, and I can't hold a decent regular line. I have to roll the dice on full VTOs to get what I consider a decent schedule. Is that "junior" enough for you?

The only beauty (and saving grace) of VTOs are that one man's junk is truly another man's treasure. Being that I bid in the bottom 3 to 4 VTO full line bidders, my UPS bidding life is ruled by that junk/treasure axiom.

You are correct, I was off by one day (8+7 vice two 7 day periods). I could easily get 14 days at home, or more if I had 13 days off at the end of a bid period, and was awarded a reserve line in the next bid period that didn't start for another week or 13 days.

The last time I stood normal reserve (not RSCA or RSCP) was in early 2011. I was bored out of my mind, because I never got used. I did get to work out quite a bit at the gym though. If I lived in domicile, reserve would have been the sweetest gig ever.

I don't know where you worked before, but I was at Delta, and I never had 2 weeks off at a time (like I do here at UPS). More like 4 days on, and 3 days off. The most days off in a row that I ever had there on reserve was 4 days (not including vacation).

I'm not sure why you're trying to paint such a bad picture of our schedules at UPS. Believe me, there are a whole lot worse out there at a fraction of our pay.

If anybody truly wants to improve their QOL 100%, then you have to bite the bullet, and move to your domicile. This axiom holds true for any airline, not just UPS.

That doesn't make sense ... what about military C-130, P-3, C-12 pilots? Surely they've been hired? :eek:

2007 hire also, made the furlough list though ... It is simply amazing how different a schedule can be from just 10-20 numbers of seniority.

True ...


Like I said ... "But its not all bad. A real junior puke like myself sitting mostly 2 week blocks of RSV and an occasional line can be home 50% of the time. That will take creative use of "personal time" and vacation. But it can be done" ... As you just added, good bidding practices has its benefits too, if you can hold what you want on reserve

Sounds similar to Cactus ... but apparently it was easier to get more than 4 days off. I did it regularly via trades, creative bidding, etc.



Mostly just to yank your chain, and yes I know it can be much worse elsewhere ... but this certainly isn't paradise.



True that ! ... Hopefully we'll have some domicile stability going forward, because moving to base would not have been a very smart move at UPS for the junior in the last 5 years.

Peace ...

If you ever fly a domestic schedule, I can attest to how bad they suck whether you live in domicile or not. They are absolutely brutal. I was bidding around 110 domestically and all i could hold, besides A RSV was Base Line Trips or bottom half VTOs full of weeks of call-in(to sit hot). I would guess the domestic schedules are more like your Delta schedule, but at night.

Not necessarily. UPS has hired Part 135 pilots and corporate pilots as well without any turbojet experience. They are rare, but they exist.

I remember a UPS H.R. rep telling me that they like to hire across different backgrounds. From what I've seen, that's true with the exception of the hiring they did for the ANC domicile where they sought pilots with widebody experience