FDX be afraid of PBS and management
 

I was in training this week and heard some ungodly rumors about PBS.
Specifically a 20% raise if we accept PBS.
With all the folks who have less in 10 years to go, we are all screwed because you know they're voting yes.
The word is that PBS's a dealbreaker for the company and 20% is on the table I wonder how this is going to go?:mad:

The deal is broke, then.

I agree with Huck, automatic NO vote for me. Not even for 50% more. Seriously. I have lived the transition from line bidding to PBS, twice. I have also lived the transition for flight attendants from line bidding to PBS. Every time, it sucked, for 95% of the folks. Vacation, training, reserve, everything, was a concession on QOL. Not worth any type of money to give up that amount of QOL.

This is not drama, I heard this from a solid source.

My question is, why haven't we heard this earlier from the union folks?

If this is accurate, I believe it is, why havent the union folks pre warned? Why am I paying dues?

With 18 -20% on the table then my belief is that most of the senior guys would be willing to suffer a few years of misery for the $.....we are screwed!

Yeah, well, then we'll be in charge of their retirement....

Oh, our vacation is gone entirely.....
We bid 15 days vacation, great.....no sliding, no expanding...the company will give the days off and then you get to work the other 15 days that month.

Management can offer 18-20% because its cost neutral or better.....
My guess is way better in the short and long run.

VOTE NO!

This I don't understand. The way the contract is written we only have to work 15 days a month. A vacation day counts as a work day. If you take 7 days vacation you owe them 8 days work. Same as now.

I don't want PBS but I can't believe you cant have work rules that allow sliding and expansion.

Hey Irish....How about voicing an opinion but cut the "we are all screwed because you know they're voting yes" crap. Stop dividing the crew force. I know lots of senior guys and not one has voiced that they would vote for PBS for ANYTHING....

PBS is a no vote...period.

We've told the MEC and the NC that we don't want any contract that includes PBS. The MEC and the NC have told us that they got that message. With those marching orders (among others), the NC goes to work.

Now, management comes to you with a rumor (yes, it was management who came to you with that rumor) and the expectation (nay, certain knowledge), that you or one of your fellow rumor recipients will come here and spread it. This hopefully to get a "That sounds like a good deal" discussion going, but as a minimum, to spread the "Why haven't we heard this from ALPA" dissension. This is known as "direct dealing." And you dutifully did exactly what management wanted you to do.

What part of "My Negotiating Committee Speaks For Me" is unclear?

I fully expect that the NC will bring me a TA without PBS in it. If they fail in that, and instead bring one that DOES have PBS, we vote it down, send in a new Negotiating Committee, and hopefully, take a strike authorization vote.

Until that comes to pass, however, keep your panties unknotted, let the NC do it's job, and stop rising to management's bait.

The company can offer up anything they want. But the MEC- our 13 block reps- have to approve anything to be sent to us to vote on. So- I don't see us voting on PBS.

Sounds like PBS lovers are spreading it pretty thick. Can you say "Career Flex"?

What you're saying is true if you got a secondary line for your vacation month. Actually, the 7 days are worth 42 CH and you would get the balance of the secondary BLG scheduled in trips or R-days (not necessarily 8 work days to use your example). With PBS, that's the way it would be for everyone. No more ability to knock out a 90 hour single departure line with 7 days of vacation. No ability to go the other way and bid a line that doesn't conflict w/ your vacation at all so you can get it bought back in Dec if you'd prefer the cash over time off.

Believe it. There's no reason to have sliding or expansion if the planners are building your secondary (I mean PBS) line around your vacation. When was the last time you had the option to slide or expand your vacation in conjunction with a secondary line? I'll give you a hint, NEVER!

No offense to you personally, but you are the perfect dupe or foil for the Company. We, the crew force, have told the Union we want no part in PBS. They have told us that PBS is a non-starter. Why don't we let them negotiate. You've taken the Company's rumor, laid it out here on APC as some gospel truth that it's going to happen, and generally just stirred the pot for no reason.

So now, while we're all juiced up and distracted with PBS, we fail to see something else get slipped in to the contract. All I'm saying is let's keep our eyes on the finish line. Let our negotiators do their thing. We have the final say on the contract and I would certainly think our MEC would like to bring us a TA that we can approve.

Now back to the rumors.:eek:

MG2

Yo Irish, did you call your union rep and ask? Or just decide to post a thread to create mass hysteria?

"I have seen the enemy, and he is us."

Just me-
but I don't want my NC coming to me with an offer I've already told them is unacceptable.

So it is a law or something that says vacations can't be processed after schedules are assigned, just like they are now? Work rules are whatever the company and the association agree to.

Uhhh....We've always had the option to slide vacations on a secondary line. Of course, you do it before they fill your line with trips.

NO PBS.

Typically, PBS systems are set up to have the schedules built after known conflicts like training and vaca are already in place. Much of the efficiency of the system would be lost if it wasn't. I suppose it could be negotiated, but it seems unlikely if the company's motivation is gaining the efficiency inherent in a PBS system.
There are so many other "cons" for us w/ a PBS system, the vacation stuff is just the tip of the iceberg. Just say "no".

True. I meant it in the context of sliding the vaca to conflict with a trip, not just tweeking the actual days you're off.

Never give them anything like PBS for money. There is always a reason they are willing to poor so much money at something like this. The outcome for us will not be favorable if we allow PBS into our livelihoods. We've all watched as other airlines have given up pay, work rules, and retirements in bad times but PBS will never go away from these airlines. Just vote no to PBS period!

If you heard it from someone in the training department then you didn't hear it from a solid source. No one in training knows anything more than anyone else.

I know what a typical PBS system (isn't that repetitive) is like. I also know that if the company is allowed to impose one during self help that will really suck.

It comes down to what are our obligations under the RLA. Do we have to negotiate in good faith or not. Seems to me our goal should be to make the company not want PBS.

PBS=NO Vote. Period. Do not be distracted, do not let them Direct Deal :mad:. Have Faith in the NC.......they are doing what we told them to do. :)


My Negotiating Committee Speaks for Me!!!!!

They certainly speak to the company for me, it is the law. Does not mean that I have to sit in Catechism class and hope Sister Marie doesn't smack my knuckles again.

Never implied anything close LAG.......Cheers ;)

F...U and the horse you rode in on. I've got 7 years to go and PBS is dead to me. Take your devisive assumptions and stick um where the sun don't shine.

I had not really thought about how long I have left here but, it is less than 8 years unless BS gets the age changed to 70+ :D

Anyway - there is NO AMOUNT OF MONEY that would make me want to work under PBS for my last few years!

They DO know something we line pilots don't. They know what they want. Career Flexes don't bid the line so some will gladly sell the line crew member out for a modest pay bump. That's just how they are.

They get to see a large number of crew members and are trying their Jedi Mind trick on us to push the PBS agenda.

Being an APC'er, I'm immune to such nonsense.

Most of those fuys are facing being replaced by proffessionals, so I really doubt they feel secure in their positions.

Yep... all this PBS talk is just to keep our attention drawn away from the real bomb being dropped - the formation of an airline within an airline - non-seniority list pilots managing us, training us and flight-testing our aircraft, just like UPS....

Bob G.'s former job got advertised last week, but I bet a chili-pepper soup that it goes to a non-seniority list candidate. Probably a retired US Air guy....

As long as they don't fly revenue trips it wont be just like UPS.

You can slide VAC on a Secondary Line, but it you do it BEFORE you have any trips to knock out. Otherwise, you are correct. :)

Don't think that LCA jobs aren't next.

No F/O flexes means nobody getting groomed to be LCA's.

Next contract it'll be the LCA jobs that will go....

I don't post much, but 20 posts and Irishboy decides to tell us the sky is falling?

Dupe or plant?

Either way, I don't know who you're talking to (the mirror maybe). I have never spoken to a single crew member who thinks that is a good idea. NO ONE in the crew force will give away our vacation or vote in PBS. They are deal breakers, non-starters, no votes.

Lose the hysteria and get your July bid in before you forget.