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-   -   Amazon NOT starting it's own airline. (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/93126-amazon-not-starting-its-own-airline.html)

iPilot 02-13-2016 08:40 PM


Originally Posted by Albief15 (Post 2067953)
Remember this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PV0vWjoY8M

DHL had the world wide network, experience, and the consensus was they were going to put a huge dent into the US market. They didn't.

Except Amazon isn't competing against FedEx/UPS for retail customers only for its own packages. Question is whether an internal distribution network that operates at cost is competitive with what brown and purple have to offer?

Keep in mind one of the largest trucking companies in the US is Wal Mart. They are not competing with other trucking companies just have to be cheaper than farming all that freight to other companies. Plus they aren't operating as a common carrier, simply moving their own stuff around.

Packrat 02-13-2016 09:43 PM


Originally Posted by iPilot (Post 2068289)
Keep in mind one of the largest trucking companies in the US is Wal Mart. They are not competing with other trucking companies just have to be cheaper than farming all that freight to other companies. Plus they aren't operating as a common carrier, simply moving their own stuff around.

This is an important point.

dutch747 02-13-2016 10:04 PM


Originally Posted by Kougarok (Post 2068283)
Dude this makes no sense at all! Amazon is going to spend a ton of money setting up a logistics company just to get discounts from Fedex and UPS???

How much money have they spend?

Albeif15 makes total sense.

vroll1800 02-14-2016 08:39 AM


Originally Posted by Albief15 (Post 2067953)
Remember this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PV0vWjoY8M

DHL had the world wide network, experience, and the consensus was they were going to put a huge dent into the US market. They didn't.

I don't scoff every start up, and businesses grow and evolve. Part of Amazon's success has been being able to work around brick and mortar businesses and reaching directly to the consumer. I have an account there, and appreciate the convenience. The amount of moving parts and regulation, however, in a transportation company means I think there are issues and problems UPS and FedEx have long since smoothed out that Amazon will have to overcome. I'm not saying they cannot. I am saying I don't quake in my boots for my job must because some financial writers who worship Amazon think its automatically going to be a success. I use an Ipad, not a Kindle. I use an iphone, not a Fire smartphone. Amazon should be respected for their size. They are not flawless, however, and have stumbled in many areas. I think this move is largely a huge negotiating ploy to lock in long term shipping discounts. Even if they lose some money contracting boats and other shippers if it forces UPS and FDX to hold the line on rates for their services then Amazon still can win something.

When I saw "727574dvr" OP in Amazon Prime Air thread back in Oct. 2015, I thought the "worlds largest within 2 years" claim to be grandiose.
However, a subsequent post stating that the idea was to "stop using brown and purple for our deliveries" to be a more achievable goal. Don't forget that UPS used belly freight for the longest time before setting up the multiple contractor business model out of KSDF in the early 80's, and ultimately current model in 1988.

I don't think losing ~10% of business will adversely impact a Captain in a junior base (FDA), either. Just that your boat won't be rising as fast as you originally thought it would. How well it raises other boats remains to be seen. I know that an acorn doesn't become a big oak tree overnight, yet also that oak trees got their start as a small acorn.

PS- Has anyone noticed that "727574dvr" has been pretty quiet since October ?

Rock 02-14-2016 12:29 PM


Originally Posted by iPilot (Post 2068289)
. Plus they aren't operating as a common carrier, simply moving their own stuff around.

Yeah. To their own huge network of brick and mortar stores where customers drive from miles away to go shopping. Is that what Amazon is intending to replicate?

iPilot 02-14-2016 12:50 PM


Originally Posted by Rock (Post 2068612)
Yeah. To their own huge network of brick and mortar stores where customers drive from miles away to go shopping. Is that what Amazon is intending to replicate?

In a way. Currently Amazon uses FedEx and UPS to deliver to regional post offices and then the USPS does the last mile delivery. Amazon won't need to build infrastructure to get a package to every home in america just to a handful of post office sort facilities. The airplanes and semi truck network they propose will do just that. Take a state like Arizona for instance: Amazon flies a 767 to Phoenix where it gets unloaded into semi-trucks which then deliver to the various major post offices throughout the state overnight. The next day the USPS delivers the packages along with the daily mail service. All Amazon had to worry about was a couple airplanes and truck trailers and they've replaced UPS/FedEx for their deliveries to an entire state.

BoilerUP 02-14-2016 01:20 PM

Amazon's bread and butter is massive distribution centers - which are a hell of a lot cheaper to build, stock and operate (to say nothing of regulatory compliance) than a fleet of widebody airliners.

Rock 02-14-2016 01:41 PM


Originally Posted by iPilot (Post 2068615)
In a way. Currently Amazon uses FedEx and UPS to deliver to regional post offices and then the USPS does the last mile delivery. Amazon won't need to build infrastructure to get a package to every home in america just to a handful of post office sort facilities. The airplanes and semi truck network they propose will do just that. Take a state like Arizona for instance: Amazon flies a 767 to Phoenix where it gets unloaded into semi-trucks which then deliver to the various major post offices throughout the state overnight. The next day the USPS delivers the packages along with the daily mail service. All Amazon had to worry about was a couple airplanes and truck trailers and they've replaced UPS/FedEx for their deliveries to an entire state.

Have you ever actually observed the UPS/FedEx sort operations at individual stations? Or the infrastructure required to facilitate the whole process at each station? I guess the hope is you can move whole containers of packages off an airplane, directly onto a truck and drive them to the local post office to sort and deliver. Because the Post Office has an amazingly efficient and under used sorting and delivery system at the local level... Especially during the holidays which seem to be the primary reason Amazon is looking for other options...:confused: I just don't see it happening.

angry tanker 02-16-2016 04:26 PM

More to think about:

Amazon-FedEx: Crazy or Worth Considering? - Bloomberg Gadfly

atpcliff 02-17-2016 05:33 AM

According to a bunch of other posters, Amazon has hired a lot of logistics people away from UPS.


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