I am willing to put it behind us. If I can ride on ATI they can ride in my jump seat.

You'll be "watching, and listening for any change of tone from the ABX side of the house"? What...from our jerks? Because if that's the case, you're going to wait a long time, because jerks will be jerks, regardless of which company they're working for.

Now, if you're "watching, and listening" for a change of tone from our 'rank and file' majority, you'll also be waiting a long time for a positive change, because most of us, already understand that the majority of the 'rank and file' ATI guys are good people, and hold no malice toward you. We also understand that ATI has their jerks, but because we know the majority of you guys are decent, we try to ignore the actions of your jerks, and I'd ask that you do the same and ignore our jerks.

Your stand that you'll keep us off of your jumpseat (and I agree with abxflyer, it's your right) until we treat you better, reminds me of this old joke:

NOTE FROM MANAGEMENT:
The beatings will continue, until morale improves.

Lol

Well I'm an @$$hole and other @$$holes are welcome on my JS.

We can all b1tch about ATSG and be the happ happiest bunch of @$$holes since Bing Crosby danced with Danny F'ing Kaye


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Time for a little trip down memory lane. ATI Pilots have never been on the offensive toward ABX crews or any one else for that matter. The same cannot be said for ABX crews and their Teamsters representation. Years ago ATI was originally represented by the Teamsters Local 747 out of Houston Texas. After becoming part of the ATSG family, our union president was accused by the Teamsters National Airline Division of professional misconduct. Subsequently, our local was stormed without prior notification and our President was removed from the property. He was immediately replaced by a sitting member of local 1224. We were currently in the middle of contract negotiations and, as allowed by Teamsters bylaws, were dis-invited to our own negotiation sessions. 1224 started negotiating for us without our input. This is why we are represented by ALPA at this time. Our EXCO and 100% of our crew members voted to decertify the Teamsters and we subsequently expedited our acceptance into ALPA. You want to talk about Teamsters pride. We were betrayed by our own Union. This Jumpseat war started over a decade ago. ATI pilots are tired of the constant threat to our jobs by 1224. The threat of filing for single carrier status has been on the table for years. It will fail. Just as taking over our Local 747 failed years ago. Ironically, had ABX simply left ATI alone both airlines could have prospered. Aircraft for Amazon were planned to be split between both Airlines. however, since the illegal strike by ABX pilots, which only served to hurt the customer on black Friday and the Xmas peak transpired it looks like ATI will get at least 16 out of the original twenty. Interesting, considering that 1224 recently proposed to ATSG management that ABX get all Amazon flying, all DHL flying and that ATI would be "allowed" to continue our Combi flying for the military. No way in hell will an ABX pilot ever sit on my jumpseat. As far as reciprocity goes, guess I will just have to get the company to buy me a ticket. Perhaps ABX crews should be less critical of our MEC and take a hard look at the actions of their exco.

Hmmm.... no smart@ $$ blowhard retort from Motorclutch-
that must mean there's some element of truth to this

It's all true and easy to verify. Had to join this Forum. Not to incite, but to defend the fact that ATI crew members have always been on the receiving end of ABX attacks. I am personally glad that they initiated their illegal strike which was effectively against Amazon and DHL. Ironically, every ABX pilot I have talked to in recent months bragged about how much money they were making and didn't complain about forced overtime. Same bunch that worked overtime while they had furloughed crew members about to drop off their senority list. Priceless. No more nuclear options after their single carrier suit fails. They should have just left us alone instead of trying to shut us down. "Hey Capt., we are trying to shut down ATI through scope negotiations and ultimately through single carrier representation because we are threatened by you and we hate you. Can I jump seat on your plane to ILN?"

I'm up now. You left out the part about an indictment for imbezzlement cupcake. That got your president removed. You also failed to address an attempt to "lap dog" JH with an undercutting contract in an attempt to take DHL flying from ABX. Regardless, I'd like to thank your MEC for taking the lead on this jumpseat issue. Hopefully you guys can hang out in the DHL facility so I can buy you guys some coffee.

How did I do?

Actually I would Lee. Unless it's someone I know and trust I'm just not gonna deal with it. Won't feel bad about it either because I'll just be reciprocating for our guys that got denied.

I just feel good about you getting your Captain's authority back from management.........small steps!

Dang MC! Did you get sent to charm school?

lol I'm trying. Old Deano gave me a letter of instruction on how to be loved by all! Hahahahahaha

Wow are you serious? Lol

Here again you go about misstating the story in an attempt to misinform and stoke the flames of dislike for ABX. Teamsters National put an ABX Local 1224 member in place at your union working for Teamsters National not 1224. Could of been from any Teamsters local. The ABX members of Local 1224 had nothing to do with what happened, that was all driven and directed by Teamsters National. That being said, with your childish behavior over jumpseat access by ABX pilots being based on this I guess you should remove all jumpseaters that are members of the teamsters. You'd be a big man and well respected by all in your own little world.

No problem with the Teamsters whatsoever and all are welcomed on my flight deck.......except ABX crews. Their hostility toward us is seldom subtle. Plenty of documentation to support that. Additionally, several ATI crews were bumped off ABX jump seats well prior to the illegal ABX strike. Nice going, you started a jump seat war with a home based airline. Let's not forget how indiscriminately several ABX pilots threw the "scab" word around. We never flew ABX freight and continued our operation as required by our CBA.

Let it go....relax......call JV and see if he will invite you over for a hug and some kool-aid. Lol this is getting funny.

There's a lot of new people at both companies and I think some of you senior guys that are holding on to wrong doings in the past (regardless of who said or did what) are just gonna have to move on and let it go. The new blood is more concerned with working at successful companies and making a good living. These two pilot groups are gonna have to work together to make that happen. It's not rocket science.

We don't won't to perpetuate the ATSG whipsaw. That's power to ATSG not the ATI or ABX pilots. It's really in everyone's best interest to shake hands, move on and face the coming challenges together. That may sound all goofy, but it doesn't make it any less true.

The "new you" suits you. 😂👍

Jason, it's killin me!

A good start might be changing the title of this Thread.

I'm just say'en......


FAJ

And when were YOU denied a JS by an ABX Captain?
Dude, let it go. You're gonna give yourself a heart attack.
FYI, I don't have a problem with ATI Crews whatsoever...management is THE problem.

That would seem to imply that some people don't love you. I find that hard to believe.

Concerning my enlightenment from management (letter of instruction) I come to find that according to our VP (BB) it was directed by JH himself. I feel honored to have uncle JH to take precious minutes of his day from running a corporation to assist in my development as a good citizen. I thank him daily. Hahahahaaha

I'm sure it is. Haha

I agree. Or just let this thread die out and we can all concentrate on the future.

Do you still believe in the tooth fairy, also? Your account of the events at 747 is completely misrepresentative of the facts. The President of 747 was not replaced with a 1224 member. The President was removed, and oversight of the Local turned over to a Trustee. Huge difference.
The demise of 747 was used as an opportunity to allow the airlines flying large aircraft to merge into 1224. Nobody was forced to do so, as the WOA pilots declined to move and stayed at Local 986. The debacle at 747 was handled about as well as it could be by the Airline Division. David Bourne inherited a S&%$storm, and IMHO managed the problem well. It was during this period where the IBT came into it's own providing stellar representation to the pilots of ACMI carriers.

Here we are again.....

It appears that in the recent past ABX pilot(s) are being denied jumpseat rides to/from work on ATI. Generally, and I think most will agree, jumpseating and personal issues [with another pilot group] do not belong in the cockpit. Personal differences should be kept at bay for the very purpose of being able to continue to utilize various carriers from all representative groups (Alpa, Teamsters, IPA, etc.). After all, if one has a bone to pick, it is with the concept of the whole/group and not the individual.

While I have not experienced any denial from ATI (and I regularly utilize their seat..), others have. From the information I received they were denied without cause or reason (meaning the j/s pilot did nothing wrong or provocative). In the latest case, the ATI captain denied the seat before the pilot even showed up at the aircraft! (ATI Ops contacted the pilot to inform him of the operating captains denial).

I post this information as reference and to better inform those who are not aware of this issue. Hopefully other ATI pilots (which is the vast majority) will seek out those who are having some sort of personal issue or vendetta against jumpseating pilots. I don't know if their problem is limited to ABX pilots or not....but my guess would be that is the case.

I happily invite ATI pilots to respond, or anyone else for that matter, especially if it's in a positive and productive approach to resolving these issues.

As a side note..the 2 captains who have taken this recent approach are former CCI pilots and not legacy ATI. I will not publicly post their names.....that certainly isn't the road to happiness

Scabs be scabs

Spot on and, as usual, a very reasonable and professional argument, flyr.


Finding a way to end posts like the one above from the enlightened "new hire" (or should I say troll...) would certainly help. I'm guessing neither of the two mentioned have ever needed or used an ABX jump seat. Maybe the same is true of the pot-stirring noisemakers here regarding their need of an ATI jump seat. Regardless, they're poisoning their own well.

It's difficult to get past old history (for some of us more than others, apparently) when it's constantly shoved in our faces. The problem exists on both sides of our shared fence.

And, for what it's worth, I've accepted every ABX jump seater who's needed a lift over the years, and I have no plans to do anything otherwise in the future. But, in all honesty, it's not easy to avoid wondering whether the "nice guy at the bottom of the steps" wasn't talking smack about us only 10 minutes before among his peers.

Sounds like either paranoia or guilt

Many do keep a "list", but I don't. So it isn't paranoia. And no one's given me a reason to deny them a seat. So, since I fly with a clear conscience, it isn't guilt. More along the lines of learning from the past, and from the old grown-up adage of "trust, but verify". A concept that might be new to those of us who have never had children, or who might still be children themselves.


Must be something more like keeping professional courtesy at the forefront.

This I also agree...however, when your chief pilot personally called the denied jumpseater to inform him that the captain operating the flight was not going to let him jumpseat...,,game changer! I’ve never denied anyone my jumpseat but if I did I would have had the stones to tell him. Why would your chief-clown do this?

Here we go. Someone tries to address an important issue on this forum in a mature and professional way and instantly gets a childish response. If this response was from an ABX pilot, I, and many other ABX pilots wish you would refrain from posting your nonsense in the future. It is not professional. Grow up.

Lot's of ABX threats to block ATI from all jumpseats industry wide for being "scabs" in the past.

I don't get this game by ABX - ATI has home basing, ATI pilots are getting to work if they need to.

If ABX goes down the jumpseat warpath here - could put a crimp in ABX pilot QOL - and for what?

Reality - ABX consider ATI folks scabs and scum in many cases. Is it possible an ATI pilots doesn't want ABX guys sitting jumpseat? Definitely! If ABX could screw over ATI they would, be it takeover of local, cram-down SLI or whatever (and no, ATI pilots did not all want the SLI)

Edit: Ooops, didn't see the first post was from 2017! I was getting deja vu. Hopefully this all dies down a bit.

Unless there has been another change I don't know about recently, ATI's chief pilot is ex-ABX, and jumpseaters are allowed at the captain's discretion, not the chief pilot's discretion.

It's a good bet that given the other recent incident, there has already been communication from the chief pilot about denying jumpseats to ABX pilots without cause. I would imagine that the captain in question had a conversation with his chief pilot when he saw an ABX pilot on the release to tell him he would be denying the jumpseat anyway. I would also bet that the chief pilot tried to talk him out of doing that, and when he was unsuccessful, as a courtesy to one of his former coworkers, he made the call himself to save the prospective jumpseater the hassle of going out to an airplane he wasn't going to be riding on, and probably to provide an apology as well for not having corrected the problem already.

Plus consider the fact that your chief pilot and vp of ops both crossed picket lines......,birds of a feather