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Charter Ops
Good morning:
Not as knowlegable as most on here, but need some clarification in terms of Charter Operations, particularly, Miami Air. My question is: Is charter operations considered to be a 91, 121, or 135 operation. Thanks in advance. atp |
If there's money involved it's not part 91. Depends on the size of the plane, well really the seating capacity or payload capacity as to whether 135 or 121 Supplemental.
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ACMI (aircraft, crew, maintenance, insurance) charters done with large airplanes are performed under Part 121, though some empty legs are flown in accordance with Part 91, in some cases.
This is true of cargo, and passenger operations. In the case of a Part 91 leg, the operation is still performed by a Part 121 certificate holder. If passengers or property are carried for compensation or hire, then the flight must be conducted under Part 121. |
Twin Wasp & JB:
So to be clear, if the operation is certificated under 121, then crew memebers must leave the deck @ 65....correct? Under what circumstances or type of operation could a crew member stay on the deck pass age 65 and still be able to fly say the 737-8; 752 or even 767? To be forthright, all that I had desired to accomplish in aviation, aside from finishing ERAU, is happening for me in my 60's. I'm 62. Go figure. I've always wanted to fly one of the more commonly recognized a/c ie 737,757,767. I'm keenly aware that as i age, my options become even more limited. Part 91 is my best option/choice. I just wanna be clear...crystal clear when I make this move. Trust me, I've waited a long to get to this point. Thanks. atp |
Originally Posted by atpwannabe
(Post 3760241)
Twin Wasp & JB:
So to be clear, if the operation is certificated under 121, then crew memebers must leave the deck @ 65....correct? Under what circumstances or type of operation could a crew member stay on the deck pass age 65 and still be able to fly say the 737-8; 752 or even 767? To be forthright, all that I had desired to accomplish in aviation, aside from finishing ERAU, is happening for me in my 60's. I'm 62. Go figure. I've always wanted to fly one of the more commonly recognized a/c ie 737,757,767. I'm keenly aware that as i age, my options become even more limited. Part 91 is my best option/choice. I just wanna be clear...crystal clear when I make this move. Trust me, I've waited a long to get to this point. Thanks. atp That number may soon increase to age 67 under pending legislation, but may not. Presently, the mandatory retirement age is 65. See 14 CFR 121.383(d) &(e): https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-1...ection-121.383 § 121.383 Airman: Limitations on use of services. (d) No certificate holder may use the services of any person as a pilot on an airplane engaged in operations under this part if that person has reached his or her 65th birthday. (e) No pilot may serve as a pilot in operations under this part if that person has reached his or her 65th birthday. You can act as an instructor under Part 121, above age 65. Fractional operations may be another option. |
Originally Posted by atpwannabe
(Post 3760241)
Twin Wasp & JB:
So to be clear, if the operation is certificated under 121, then crew memebers must leave the deck @ 65....correct? Under what circumstances or type of operation could a crew member stay on the deck pass age 65 and still be able to fly say the 737-8; 752 or even 767? To be forthright, all that I had desired to accomplish in aviation, aside from finishing ERAU, is happening for me in my 60's. I'm 62. Go figure. I've always wanted to fly one of the more commonly recognized a/c ie 737,757,767. I'm keenly aware that as i age, my options become even more limited. Part 91 is my best option/choice. I just wanna be clear...crystal clear when I make this move. Trust me, I've waited a long to get to this point. Thanks. atp |
Part 91 legs are Part 91 and may be flown by pilots over 65, though most unions and operational practicalities limit this to being limited to non-existent.
A Part 125 operator, which in many ways operates in a similar market segment, may use pilots past age 65. |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 3760269)
Miami Air, Atlas, Omni, Kalitta, National, Amerijet, Eastern, et al, are ACMI operators. The operating certificate is 14 CFR 121. It doesn't matter if empty "part 91" legs are flown to reposition the airplane; all pilots flying for that operation do so under Part 121, becasue it's an airline: a 121 operator. There are various types of 121 operations and flying, but the age 65 cutoff applies to them all. Therefore, if you're flying for Miami, Swift (or whatever it's called this week), and so on, you're a 121 airline pilot, subject to mandatory age restrictions.
That number may soon increase to age 67 under pending legislation, but may not. Presently, the mandatory retirement age is 65. See 14 CFR 121.383(d) &(e): https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-1...ection-121.383 To continue beyond age 65 with a carrier who operates under Part 91 only, you'd need to go with a charter operator (part 135), corporate operator, private flight department, etc. You can act as an instructor under Part 121, above age 65. Fractional operations may be another option. This loophole may change in future union negotiations. |
Originally Posted by zsyoz
(Post 3761080)
This is incorrect. iAero/ Swift does empty part 91 legs with pilots who are older than 65. They are contractors and paid by the day, not on a salary. However, all these pilots were normal part 121 pilots for the company prior to turning 65.
This loophole may change in future union negotiations. atp |
Originally Posted by 4dalulz
(Post 3760308)
Part 91 legs are Part 91 and may be flown by pilots over 65, though most unions and operational practicalities limit this to being limited to non-existent.
A Part 125 operator, which in many ways operates in a similar market segment, may use pilots past age 65. atp |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 3760269)
Miami Air, Atlas, Omni, Kalitta, National, Amerijet, Eastern, et al, are ACMI operators. The operating certificate is 14 CFR 121. It doesn't matter if empty "part 91" legs are flown to reposition the airplane; all pilots flying for that operation do so under Part 121, becasue it's an airline: a 121 operator. There are various types of 121 operations and flying, but the age 65 cutoff applies to them all. Therefore, if you're flying for Miami, Swift (or whatever it's called this week), and so on, you're a 121 airline pilot, subject to mandatory age restrictions.
That number may soon increase to age 67 under pending legislation, but may not. Presently, the mandatory retirement age is 65. See 14 CFR 121.383(d) &(e): https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-1...ection-121.383 To continue beyond age 65 with a carrier who operates under Part 91 only, you'd need to go with a charter operator (part 135), corporate operator, private flight department, etc. You can act as an instructor under Part 121, above age 65. Fractional operations may be another option. you may also operate as a contractor that only flys part the part 91 flights…. Unless that’s been changed. part 91 and part 135 both allow flying past 65. part 91 & 91k have no restrictions except passing all your checks and Medicals. Part 135 has some new age restrictions that apply under certain conditions, I believe it’s to age 70. But in general part 135 is fly till you can’t pass anymore too |
Originally Posted by Cujo665
(Post 3765511)
you may also operate as a contractor that only flys part the part 91 flights…. Unless that’s been changed. part 91 and part 135 both allow flying past 65. part 91 & 91k have no restrictions except passing all your checks and Medicals. Part 135 has some new age restrictions that apply under certain conditions, I believe it’s to age 70. But in general part 135 is fly till you can’t pass anymore too |
Originally Posted by Sandpit
(Post 3765833)
The age 70 thing is for NetJets I believe.
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I don't think Miami Air is hiring....
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Originally Posted by Cujo665
(Post 3765511)
you may also operate as a contractor that only flys part the part 91 flights…. Unless that’s been changed. part 91 and part 135 both allow flying past 65. part 91 & 91k have no restrictions except passing all your checks and Medicals. Part 135 has some new age restrictions that apply under certain conditions, I believe it’s to age 70. But in general part 135 is fly till you can’t pass anymore too atp |
Keep in mind that Part 91 operations (eg, corporate) typically have personnel on board with a an individual net worth that exceeds an entire 737 worth of passengers; these corporate types usually want an experienced pilot flying for them, and the insurance will demand it, too.
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Originally Posted by Cujo665
(Post 3767588)
My understandmg is it's for any 135 that chooses to utilize that section. Netjets wants to ditch their experienced more expensive Captains. Could be wrong.....
NetJet's reason for doing so was pax complaining about the elderly pilots combined with those pilots playing the 3 year sick leave game. |
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