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Charter Part 121 pax charter airlines

Charter Ops

Old 01-28-2024, 05:37 AM
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Default Charter Ops

Good morning:

Not as knowlegable as most on here, but need some clarification in terms of Charter Operations, particularly, Miami Air. My question is: Is charter operations considered to be a 91, 121, or 135 operation.
Thanks in advance.


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Old 01-28-2024, 06:38 AM
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If there's money involved it's not part 91. Depends on the size of the plane, well really the seating capacity or payload capacity as to whether 135 or 121 Supplemental.
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Old 01-28-2024, 06:55 AM
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ACMI (aircraft, crew, maintenance, insurance) charters done with large airplanes are performed under Part 121, though some empty legs are flown in accordance with Part 91, in some cases.

This is true of cargo, and passenger operations.

In the case of a Part 91 leg, the operation is still performed by a Part 121 certificate holder. If passengers or property are carried for compensation or hire, then the flight must be conducted under Part 121.
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Old 01-28-2024, 07:40 PM
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Twin Wasp & JB:

So to be clear, if the operation is certificated under 121, then crew memebers must leave the deck @ 65....correct? Under what circumstances or type of operation could a crew member stay on the deck pass age 65 and still be able to fly say the 737-8; 752 or even 767?

To be forthright, all that I had desired to accomplish in aviation, aside from finishing ERAU, is happening for me in my 60's. I'm 62. Go figure. I've always wanted to fly one of the more commonly recognized a/c ie 737,757,767. I'm keenly aware that as i age, my options become even more limited. Part 91 is my best option/choice. I just wanna be clear...crystal clear when I make this move. Trust me, I've waited a long to get to this point.

Thanks.

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Old 01-28-2024, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by atpwannabe View Post
Twin Wasp & JB:

So to be clear, if the operation is certificated under 121, then crew memebers must leave the deck @ 65....correct? Under what circumstances or type of operation could a crew member stay on the deck pass age 65 and still be able to fly say the 737-8; 752 or even 767?

To be forthright, all that I had desired to accomplish in aviation, aside from finishing ERAU, is happening for me in my 60's. I'm 62. Go figure. I've always wanted to fly one of the more commonly recognized a/c ie 737,757,767. I'm keenly aware that as i age, my options become even more limited. Part 91 is my best option/choice. I just wanna be clear...crystal clear when I make this move. Trust me, I've waited a long to get to this point.

Thanks.

atp
Miami Air, Atlas, Omni, Kalitta, National, Amerijet, Eastern, et al, are ACMI operators. The operating certificate is 14 CFR 121. It doesn't matter if empty "part 91" legs are flown to reposition the airplane; all pilots flying for that operation do so under Part 121, becasue it's an airline: a 121 operator. There are various types of 121 operations and flying, but the age 65 cutoff applies to them all. Therefore, if you're flying for Miami, Swift (or whatever it's called this week), and so on, you're a 121 airline pilot, subject to mandatory age restrictions.

That number may soon increase to age 67 under pending legislation, but may not. Presently, the mandatory retirement age is 65. See 14 CFR 121.383(d) &(e):

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-1...ection-121.383

121.383 Airman: Limitations on use of services.

(d) No certificate holder may use the services of any person as a pilot on an airplane engaged in operations under this part if that person has reached his or her 65th birthday.

(e) No pilot may serve as a pilot in operations under this part if that person has reached his or her 65th birthday.
To continue beyond age 65 with a carrier who operates under Part 91 only, you'd need to go with a charter operator (part 135), corporate operator, private flight department, etc.

You can act as an instructor under Part 121, above age 65.

​​​​​​​Fractional operations may be another option.
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Old 01-28-2024, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by atpwannabe View Post
Twin Wasp & JB:

So to be clear, if the operation is certificated under 121, then crew memebers must leave the deck @ 65....correct? Under what circumstances or type of operation could a crew member stay on the deck pass age 65 and still be able to fly say the 737-8; 752 or even 767?

To be forthright, all that I had desired to accomplish in aviation, aside from finishing ERAU, is happening for me in my 60's. I'm 62. Go figure. I've always wanted to fly one of the more commonly recognized a/c ie 737,757,767. I'm keenly aware that as i age, my options become even more limited. Part 91 is my best option/choice. I just wanna be clear...crystal clear when I make this move. Trust me, I've waited a long to get to this point.

Thanks.

atp
From a person who decided to make a career change at 50 but decided the route to a major would mean low seniority until forced retirement, I would tell you start looking at 135 operators (Netjets/FlyExclusive, I would have suggested Flex until they raised their hour requirements to 3,000). You will QUICKLY learn, its not the metal you are flying that makes this an incredible career, its the fact you are flying and getting paid pretty well to do it.
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Old 01-29-2024, 01:00 AM
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Part 91 legs are Part 91 and may be flown by pilots over 65, though most unions and operational practicalities limit this to being limited to non-existent.

A Part 125 operator, which in many ways operates in a similar market segment, may use pilots past age 65.
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Old 01-30-2024, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke View Post
Miami Air, Atlas, Omni, Kalitta, National, Amerijet, Eastern, et al, are ACMI operators. The operating certificate is 14 CFR 121. It doesn't matter if empty "part 91" legs are flown to reposition the airplane; all pilots flying for that operation do so under Part 121, becasue it's an airline: a 121 operator. There are various types of 121 operations and flying, but the age 65 cutoff applies to them all. Therefore, if you're flying for Miami, Swift (or whatever it's called this week), and so on, you're a 121 airline pilot, subject to mandatory age restrictions.

That number may soon increase to age 67 under pending legislation, but may not. Presently, the mandatory retirement age is 65. See 14 CFR 121.383(d) &(e):

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-1...ection-121.383



To continue beyond age 65 with a carrier who operates under Part 91 only, you'd need to go with a charter operator (part 135), corporate operator, private flight department, etc.

You can act as an instructor under Part 121, above age 65.

​​​​​​​Fractional operations may be another option.
This is incorrect. iAero/ Swift does empty part 91 legs with pilots who are older than 65. They are contractors and paid by the day, not on a salary. However, all these pilots were normal part 121 pilots for the company prior to turning 65.
This loophole may change in future union negotiations.
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Old 01-31-2024, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by zsyoz View Post
This is incorrect. iAero/ Swift does empty part 91 legs with pilots who are older than 65. They are contractors and paid by the day, not on a salary. However, all these pilots were normal part 121 pilots for the company prior to turning 65.
This loophole may change in future union negotiations.
That sounds promising, however, improbable given my particular circumstances. It'd be great to be a contract pilot and be employed by one of the aforementioned companies w/o having been on the flight prior to. Idk. I'm just gonna play it by ear for a situation such as this.


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Old 01-31-2024, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 4dalulz View Post
Part 91 legs are Part 91 and may be flown by pilots over 65, though most unions and operational practicalities limit this to being limited to non-existent.

A Part 125 operator, which in many ways operates in a similar market segment, may use pilots past age 65.
Never knew about Part 125. Will research to see how many operators conduct flight ops under this Part. Thanks bro!


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