USMCFLYR

This is a copy of a thread in the 'Fractional' forum - but I'm posting it here also to get information about strictly CORPORATE compensation.

This is a quote from another thread:

Quote:
Then 9/11 and general airline mismanagement have left me wanting nothing to do with any of them. We have a great contract now, but it looks great mostly because the airlines have been so beaten down that we now have similar pay. We have a contract now that will probably be in force for at least another 7 or 8 years and nobody knows how much shine it will have then.
I've always wanted to fly in the corporate/fractional world - even before I knew what a fractional was! Through the years I knew that the corporate pilots of the world made less than the airline pilots (let's think back to the mid 90's for example) and we all know what has happened to the compensation for the airline pilots and how far their pay has dropped or that it will be a long time before they recover; if ever (here's to fingers crossed).

My question is this. How has the pay and benefits in the corporate/fractional world faired over the last 10 years? Have they substanially increased, remained about the same, or declined along with other segments of the aviation industry. It is my opinion that they seem to have increased over the past 10. There seems to be mention of the better contracts and the unionizing of certain fractionals that have brought pay and benefits up across the board to keep pace.

There certainly seems to be a lot more interest in this segment of the industry than ever before. I know for many years my peers would have laughed me out of the ready room if I mentioned that I wanted to fly bizjets instead of going with the legacies of the time (e.g. American and United), now instead they want to know the website so they can apply!

USMCFLYR

CFIcare

If we all paraded around telling everyone how specifically good it can be, then our best kept secret wouldn't be a secret anymore.

Let's just say that when my airline friend poo poo my "little jet" and my corporate job that isn't as "dignified" as an airline job, I just smile and let them jabber.

Pay: totally adequate
Benefits: great
QOL: very very good
equipment: meticulously maintained
training: excellent

all that and pilots tend to stick around for 30+ years at my place. So what exactly am I missing by not doing the airline thing? I don't know, but my airline friends are convinced I'm missing out while they sit reserve at Newark.

A caveat is, each corporate department is different, like each company. The department's culture and resulting QOL is a reflection of the combined aptitude and attitude of the scheduling, the chief pilot, the maintenance and the interaction of the other pilots. When is well run, fair and everyone gets along great, lemme tell you it's the best thing around.

On the other hand, I've seen corporate gigs be every bit as miserable as part 135 charter because of understaffing, underpaying, skimping on training/mx or a Nazi-style chief pilot. Best advice is to do your homework on flight departments and choose the one you'd like to work for NOT based on the glamorous Gwhiz they fly, but on the recommendation of past and present pilots. It is far preferable to fly a Citation for a well run, well outfitted company with a great QOL, then to fly a big fat Trans galactic Ego-2000 for a company that treats you like a field slave. Big companies do not always equal great QOL. Sometimes the best places to work are for companies at the bottom of the Fortune 500 list, who stay out of the limelight and keep a low profile. They are harder to get info on, but if you find a good one and get in the door, it's like hitting gold (or oil nowadays...)

USMCFLYR

[QUOTE]
Thanks CFIcare. I agree with the above which is why I had always leaned toward that side of the industry. You give a good picture of the current state of the corporate side and some really good advice; but give me some insight if you have any to how your job now compares with 10 years ago. Would you say all the above about the same job back then?

USMCFLYR

CFIcare

[QUOTE=USMCFLYR;467859]I've only been on the corporate side of the game for a little over a year. Prior to that I was on demand charter and that's a world of difference. Hopefully some long time corporate guys can chime in and tell their observations, but here's what I gather from the guys I work with who have been in the game 30 years.

I think turnover of pilots is something that accelerated in the last 10 years. When the hiring boom was hot, people were chasing greener grass out of corporate to the airlines where they thought more money could be made. In response to that, you had guys get hired on with a corp, go get typed on the company dime, then bolt for a gig with an airline, leaving the corporate department holding their hat.

When I was interviewing for my present job, I was talking with 3 departments, all of which specifically wanted a long term employee. Not someone with a 3-5 year expiration date at which point they hoped to get on with FedEx. Like I said, every corporate department's culture is different. Some it's work hard/play hard all around the world. Some are laid back and casual, while always professional. At my place we all have similar interests, we ride motorcycles together, we have each other over for BBQ and on the road we all get along well. What I'm getting at is that because of the nature of the job we all need to get along and when they hire another into the "family" they are really looking for not only a good stick, but someone whose personality fits with the other pilots. Obviously after you go through the trouble of finding someone, you don't want them leaving after a year!

So I gather that in the last 10 years the guys like my boss who have been in this their whole career, saw a period where it was harder than usual to find a long term employee. Now it seems that people are staying parked at good gigs, realizing that not only is there no greener grass out there....there isn't much grass period. The only corporate guys I see getting out presently are guys whose departments have folded thanks to this economy.

The second thing that seems to have changed is that salaries have become somewhat standarized to a larger degree thanks to surveys like Stanton and NBAA. I think before it was much harder to know what the average pay was like for a certain make/model in an are of the country, and for a certain kind of company. Now the data is right there for everyone (including potential hires) to view. Obviously if you interview a guy you like, you've gotta have pay and benefits in line with the average or he's going to walk. Two companies might own the same jet, with the same number of pilots, in the same are of the country, but these surveys show that a corporate department of a construction company might on average pay differently than a corporate flight department for a restaurant chain even though they fly the same aircraft.

I think it has always been true that salary in general is based on the size of aircraft (small, med, large) and number of aircraft flown, not necessarily number of hours flown per year. That seems to have no bearing on pay. I've seen Falcons fly 100 hours a year and 1000 hours a year and the guys make roughly the same pay if the geographic area is the same and the company is similar in size/net worth.

Hopefully someone else with a few decades of comparative experience can chime in. Ten years ago (...do you really want to know this?) I was in college and didn't even have my private license, so I can't honestly say what the situation was then. I just observe the guys I work with and can infer some of what happened since then.

I will say that I have no regrets of going the route I did. (Student-CFI-charter-corporate.) It's rewarding and offers me a great quality of life and I can actually say after all this I do enjoy going to work, even on non flying days like today when I had to go in and do revisions and update UNS's. A couple of guys rode their motorcycles in and were doing their expenses and someone ordered pizza etc. That's the kind of place we are