PC12Flyer

Hello all. I just interviewed at a corporate jet company that has a fleet of Hawker/Beechcraft equipment. Position that would be offered if I get it would be SIC on the Beechjet. They have you get your type rating and make you pay for it up front, then they will pay you back over a period of a year once you do get it and are aboard as a full time pilot. The pay is pretty good, with a very nice looking pay scale, especially once uprade to captain and also once onto the Hawker 800XP. Also are supposed to be taking order of Hawker 4000s in the near future.

Just curious about what you all think about having to pay for your own type up front and also for those who know the Beechjet well, what do you think about it? Easy to fly? Hard jet to learn? This would be my real first jet experience.

Thanks in advance...

PC12Flyer

NowCorporate

Who pays for the rating when the go belly up next month?

Can you afford to swing it?

BTW - the above scenario is very possible.

While I dont care what people spend their money on, I would never front any rating - its part of doing business - and would walk away from this "opportunity" - rather - RUN away with the economy like it is. The better parts you list about this job (Upgrading, new airplanes) are long shots at best right now.

Do some research, ask charter/management outfits how business is - its dead.

I'd wonder about a place that wont send a quality guy to initial school. Sounds like not much faith/confidence all around there.


Good Luck either way!

FlyingNasaForm

Get everything in writing.

Including who pays for your type if your services are no longer needed.

If they say, oh the planes are not gonig anywhere. Say ok, then there will be no problem putting it in writing that you'll pay for my type on the day I'm let go.

airventure

Check your PMs.

As for Beechjet flying...

I'm involved in the training process of the BE400 and get to see how a lot of people handle training. I got my type rating with only piston engine experience under my belt without any major issues. The Beechjet is an old school electronic bird. It does most of the fancy glass cockpit stuff new aircraft can do, but it's a bit cumbersome to make it happen. The flight director/autopilot gives people the most trouble. Make sure you know what every mode does and how it captures. The FMS is very powerful and semi-user friendly. I don't have anything to compare flying characteristics with, but it seems fairly decent. It uses spoilerons instead of ailerons which gives it a bit of a unique feel. If you have any other specific questions feel free to ask.

VQ2 Spanky

PC12,

I agree with Nowcorporate. I have talked to a few 135 places and they all pay for the training and some require a one year employment committment. From all my forum readings, the consensous was not to trust any outfit that requires you to pay for a type rating. Unless its SWA

Now with that being said: Get it in writing. If they fold ensure they completely pay off the cost of your type rating. The company might be looking for a loyalty check. Who knows. Let us know what you find out.

Spanky

Ziggy

Nowcorporate is right. The charter industry is dead. If this company doesn't have any solid owners, then it probably won't make it.
Is this company located in IN?

BoilerUP

Personally, I think its a HORRIBLE idea. A company that can afford to operate a bunch of Beechjunks can afford to spend $20k and send you to FSI, Simcom, or Simuflite for a type rating. That cost should NOT be borne by you up front, because even if they pro-rate the cost back to you over 12 months you've allowed them to MAKE money on the transaction by you personally eating the opportunity cost of the training funds, if not paying interest. Additionally, what others have said about the company terminating your employment is true - you should get, in writing and reviewed by YOUR attorney, an agreement that says 1. they'll pay you back prorated over 12 months, and 2. if your employment is terminated for ANY REASON you'll receive the remainder owed to you within 30 days.

As much as I hate training contracts, a 12 month prorated contract if you leave would be MUCH preferable, in my opinion.

As far as flying the Beechjet goes...it was also my first jet and I had somewhere near 750-800hrs at the time. Its easy to fly, very stiff on the roll and a ***** to land in a crosswind due to lack of ailerons. Climbs okay, cruises right up to .78 after a little bit in the upper 30s. Nice cabin for the passengers, somewhat poor takeoff/landing distance numbers, make sure somebody takes the nose gear pin out before you leave the FBO!

esa17

OOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooohhhh......the dreaded "you can't screw us by taking your type rating and running!" Get your training contract and go for it man, if they balk at the contract then stay away. But, keep in mind that you will be last on the list if the company folds when it comes to getting paid. To me, this actually says that the company has a good business sense and a plan that includes maximizing their return on investment. I'm not quite sure when but some time ago taking steps to ensure the longevity of your company became a great unwashed evil.

Someone lied to you man, we're doing better than ever thanks to the poor service of our 121 friends.

BoilerUP

I'm sorry, but that line of thinking is asinine.

Since when is having employees subsidize the cost of doing business "good business sense"? I'd personally say thats a ****-poor business model, and one that is not sustainable during an up economy with ample pilot jobs available. The employer is looking to take financial advantage of pilots who are hurting and seeking work; nothing more, nothing less. That's not maximizing ROI (there is no investment to make a return on when somebody else is bearing all the risk by fronting all the initial cost!), that's simply shady, unethical behavior that gives some charter operators bad reputations.

Again, if the company can pay the debt service on a fleet of Beechjets then they can afford to front the required cash to send a REQUIRED CREWMEMBER to formal training. Besides, if they're that big they're bound to be in a full-service contract with their training provider (be it Simuflite or FSI) and the cost will be substantially reduced.

You never see that kind of nonsense in any other professional field; business jet operators only do crap like that because PILOTS let them get away with it.

You're telling me in the last 2 months your CHARTER business hasn't all but dried up? If that's the case then great for you and your company; it would definitely be the exception to the norm these days.

Lots of charter/management company pilots hitting the streets these days due to cutbacks, if not outright company shutdowns (like Aspen Jetride putting 45+ pilots on the street yesterday).

esa17

I'm sorry you have to resort to adolescent name calling, I would expect more from a fellow Boilermaker. Lots of businesses require employees to pay for training and are reimbursed over some length of a training contract. It encourages company loyalty and discourages bandit-like behavior. Everyone from dog-groomers to physicians with tuition reimbursement

Yes, my company is doing well, business is BOOMING. We've actually brought on new pilots, opened a new office, and are looking at one new jet at least. One thing I've noticed about our customers is they tend to weather economic storms like this fairly well. They can afford anything they want, the one thing they can't buy they get from us: time. Time is a priceless commodity that never loses its value. I stand by my statements and mark my words, you'll see this sort of thing happen more and more in the future. Even the regional and majors do it: (Republic & Southwest) for example. I encourage the original poster to go with his gut and do what he thinks is best, after all, he isn't going to work for GoJets so it could be worse. To that end, I won't be responding to any further flamebait.