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Old 09-14-2009, 01:49 PM   #1  
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Default age 65

Are over 65 pilots allowed to fly PIC in Part 135 and 91? If so, are there any statistics for in flight death or incapacitation? Thanks
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:08 PM   #2  
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No age limit for 135 or 91 as long as you can hold your FAA 1st class...don't know of any stats
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:33 PM   #3  
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Default Not for Domestic, but International...

If traveling outside of the US to an ICAO country age 65 applies for 135 operations with the following limitations:

- If the PIC of a multi pilot crew is between 60 and 65, the crew must consist of at least one crewmember who is under 60.
- If single pilot, the PIC must be under 60.
- The over 60 PIC must have 6 month 1st Class medicals
- Recommended that one may not act as SIC after age 65

Part 91 are still ok. The link below is for the ICAO web-site and I pasted the excerpt relating to age 65.

ICAO | FLS | FAQs

Age limit for flight crew
Amendment 167 to Annex 1
The ICAO Council adopted on 10 March 2006 an amendment to Annex 1 Personnel Licensing that increases by five years the upper age limit for commercial pilots operating two-pilot aircraft, subject to conditions. The new provisions become applicable on 23 November 2006 and read as follows:
2.1.10.1 A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, shall not permit the holders thereof to act as pilot-in-command of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 60th birthday or, in the case of operations with more than one pilot where the other pilot is younger than 60 years of age, their 65th birthday.
2.1.10.2 Recommendation. A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, should not permit the holders thereof to act as co-pilot of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 65th birthday. 1) Pilot-in-Command aged 60-64 years of age
In accordance with Article 33 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, the amendment means that if a pilot-in-command (PIC) is 60 years of age or over but less than 65 years of age and is engaged in operations with more than one pilot, he/she cannot be prevented by reason of age from operating in airports or the airspace of any ICAO Contracting State as long as at least one other pilot is under 60 years of age. For single-pilot commercial air transport operations, the upper age limit remains at 60 years. A State may impose a lower maximum age limit than that specified by ICAO in 2.1.10.1 for the licenses it issues but it cannot prevent, by reason of age, an aircraft from another State operated by a PIC holding a licence issued or validated by that State, who is below the ICAO upper age limit, from operating in the airspace above its territory.
2) Pilot-in-Command 65 years of age and over
Articles 39 and 40 of the Convention are also relevant to the age limit of pilots-in-command engaged in commercial air transport operations as they authorize international flights by flight crew who do not meet all international licensing Standards, provided that an authorization is given by each State into which the aircraft is operated. Those seeking information concerning States that may authorize pilots to fly in their airspace after reaching the age of 65 years are advised to contact individual Civil Aviation Authorities
3) Augmented crews
In commercial long-range air transport, the designated flight crew may be augmented, and can number three, four or even more pilots. In the case of flight crew comprising more than two pilots, the intent of 2.1.10.1 is to ensure that, when the pilot-in-command is over 60 but less than 65 years of age, the operating flight crew includes at least one other pilot, who is licensed, appropriately rated for all phases of flight, current, and younger than 60 years of age. It is suggested that during high workload phases of flight (such as flight below 10,000 feet above ground level) at least one pilot seated at the controls should be under 60 years of age.
4) Medical Assessment
When over 60, a six-monthly medical assessment is necessary (ICAO specifies an annual medical assessment for those under 60 years who are engaged in two-pilot operations).
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:39 AM   #4  
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Hi!

I did a LOT of research on the Age 65 situation a few years ago.

There are a LOT of studies about pilots up to age 60, and some about older pilots, and the over 60 pilots are safer than the younger ones.

JAA set up an Age 70 exploratory committee about 2 years ago.

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Old 09-15-2009, 10:03 AM   #5  
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Originally Posted by LukinUp View Post
No age limit for 135 or 91 as long as you can hold your FAA 1st class...don't know of any stats
No age limit is correct but I don't recall there being a requirement to have a first class medical for part 135.
I personally think that a first class medical should be a requirement for single pilot part 135 ops.
I fly with some old geezers who look like they are ready to keel over any minute and yet they fly single pilot IFR.
Dangerous in my opinion.
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Old 09-15-2009, 11:04 AM   #6  
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Found this on another site:

Despite recent crashes, older pilots claim they are just as competent as younger ones

Ken Kaye and C. Ron Allen

South Florida Sun Sentinel

6:28 PM EDT, September 8, 2009
Click here to find out more!

Whether pilot Matthew Blum didn't react quickly enough to an in-flight emergency, made a poor decision or was simply overwhelmed may never be known.

Yet, no matter what caused the 78-year-old's plane to crash Sunday in Boca Raton, the fatal accident raises the question: Are older pilots prone to accidents?

Since 2003, there have been seven accidents in South Florida involving aviators ages 66 to 80. In the same period overall, there have been about 130 accidents, the vast majority involving pilots younger than 60.

Federal aviation studies note that older pilots are no more at risk for accidents than younger ones. One major reason: All pilots, no matter what age, must receive rigorous training to receive a license. Then, every two years, their skills are retested.

For that reason, older pilots say they are just as competent as younger ones.

"As long as you're mentally healthy, physically healthy and have a good aircraft, you could fly indefinitely, until the day they put you in the box," said Anthony Restaino, 73, state president of the Florida Aero Club, which has 110 chapters.

Still, statistically speaking, age would seem to be a factor in a significant number of small-plane crashes, said Chris Dancy, spokesman for the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, a trade organization representing general aviation.

Whether that is due to retirees having more time to fly -- and thus greater exposure to risk -- is unknown, he said.

Dancy said that after age 40, pilots must take a strict federal aviation physical at least once every three years, compared with once every five years for pilots younger than 40. That test carefully checks vision, hearing and reflexes.

"It's exactly the same test for someone who is 16 and getting his first student pilot's certificate," he said.

Blum, a retired sign manufacturer from New York, had been practicing landings in a home-built Aventura II airplane at Boca Raton Airport. Shortly after his last takeoff, the plane crashed on Yamato Road. The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating the accident.

In a 2005 report, the NTSB said it was unable to determine if a steady increase in the average age of general aviation pilots has resulted in more accidents. While the average age is now about 50, more than 12,000 U.S. pilots are age 75 and older.

In yet another study, specialists with the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine in Baltimore found that as people age, their motor skills and cognitive functions erode. Yet the study noted there is no significant difference between older and younger pilots when it comes to making decisions and performing flight tasks.

Restaino, who has been flying a Beech Bonanza for 26 years, said more than 80 percent of the private pilots in the South Florida skies are older than 55 years old. He said pilots with "gray hair" make it a point to exercise safety.

"We have some pilots in their 70s, and they are as good if not better than younger pilots. They've been around the block. They have experience," added Michael Punziano, 60, a flight instructor and president of Florida Aero Club at North Perry Airport in Pembroke Pines.

Since the beginning of 2008, more than 60 pilots have been involved in fatal general aviation crashes nationwide. The average age of those pilots was 53, with the youngest being 24 and the oldest being 81. In South Florida since 2003, there have been three fatal accidents involving older pilots.

Among those: Cecil Murray, 80, took off in a twin-engine Cessna 421, even though he knew he had engine problems, and crashed into an Oakland Park home in May. He was killed.

In another, in January 2004, Donald DuBois, 79, of Delray Beach, and his daughter Amy Stevens, 44, were killed when DuBois' Piper Geronimo plummeted into a neighborhood next to the Palm Beach County Park Airport in Lantana.

Robert Breiling, 79, a Boca Raton-based aviation accident analyst, said he has found the skills of older professional pilots do not erode with age. On the contrary, he said, those pilots must constantly undergo rigorous training and checks, and have amassed experience that aids in safety.

"Experience is good," he said.

Database Editor Dana Williams and Staff Researcher Barbara Hijek contributed to this report.

Ken Kaye can be reached at [email protected] or 954-572-2085.

sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/sfl-old-pilots-090809,0,4219701.story
South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
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Old 09-15-2009, 11:39 AM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atpcliff View Post
Hi!

I did a LOT of research on the Age 65 situation a few years ago.

There are a LOT of studies about pilots up to age 60, and some about older pilots, and the over 60 pilots are safer than the younger ones.

JAA set up an Age 70 exploratory committee about 2 years ago.

cliff
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I'd love to see the stats and methods on those reports.

I'd suggest that while experience IS important, the sample size of over age 60 pilots is far smaller than the pilot population under age 60. To infer a statistically relevant claim that older pilots are "safer" from such a small sample size is reaching at best.

Current part 121 rules prohibit two over age 60 pilots from flying in the same crew during international ops. Based on the older pilots are safer argument, two geezers in the same cockpit should be the safest of all pairings yet it's disallowed. Curious.
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:33 PM   #8  
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Uhh...Let's keep the term "geezers" to a minimum here folks. One of these days, you too will be a geezer. I am 56 years old, my boss is 83, and we are doing just fine, thank you very much.
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Old 09-16-2009, 03:33 AM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chongololo View Post
No age limit is correct but I don't recall there being a requirement to have a first class medical for part 135.
I personally think that a first class medical should be a requirement for single pilot part 135 ops.
I fly with some old geezers who look like they are ready to keel over any minute and yet they fly single pilot IFR.
Dangerous in my opinion.
It is not an FAR requirement for part 135 PIC's to have a first class medical but most insurance companies either require it or give very significant discounts to clients who's pilots have one.
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Old 09-16-2009, 07:13 AM   #10  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizepilot View Post
Uhh...Let's keep the term "geezers" to a minimum here folks. One of these days, you too will be a geezer. I am 56 years old, my boss is 83, and we are doing just fine, thank you very much.
Sorry mate, no offense intended.
In fact I look forward to being a ge....zer one day myself.
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