When talking about the difference between a Challenger 604 and the Falcon 900, I heard a pilot joke "I'd rather have two grown men than three little boys." Then he admited that the Falcon does more with less :rolleyes:

I think the analogy is lost in the homoerotic nature of the comment!:D

Citi did NOT get their 7x's

That day rate is a pipe dream.

There is not much 7X contract work avail.

You would be out of your f'n mind to spend 45K and expect to make it back.

Yes, the little contract work that is avail is Intl.

No, the airplane is not underpowered, it can go max weight to FL410 sometimes FL450 and .85 - compared to a DA900ex its a climber. The 731 was a great learjet 35 engine. It is junk on Falcons. They could not have made the 7X with 731s.

Yes, it is about 35-40% cheaper to run than a G550/Global - but it is smaller inside.

so 7X owners are selling them left and right? oh?....are ANY used 7X's for sale aside for ones listed for more than new prices (permanently for sale aircraft?)

Always solid info on these boards....;)

Just went through recurrent with a UK-based pilot flying the 7X. Had some very nice things to say about the airplane, but at the same time they've run into a few unusual circumstances with it that show the plane was designed by engineers and not "real pilots"...for instance, you cannot pushback the aircraft with all the avionics and such fired up. Pushing back requires disconnecting the nosewheel steering linkage..except when you do so it automatically shuts down the APU and dumps everything! :( not fun in a lot of European airports where pushbacks out of the stand are required...

Very true! - the nosewheel and the parking brake are the brains here, lol.

But - having been to just about every airport in Europe that a bizjet may go to (haha)....I have never once had to push back in Europe.

Only place I ever had to push back in a bizjet was in Singapore (WSSS)

Dassault could certainly use pilot feedback when designing things. The position of the brake pedals on the 7X is ridiculous.

It is great at high and hot airports never had a problem with SEQU AND ASE OR EGE they did a great job . the Gv is a great bird but burns more fuel the 7x wing make's this jet what it is . it's not the 900 its the 7x the 3 enigine jet burns as much fuel as a mid size 2 engine aircraft this make it a great bird

Isn't the SMS (or whatever Dassault is calling it these days) supposed to have a downsized 7X wing?

From everything I hear, in lieu of more power the 900EX could really benefit from not having the 50 wing...

Last I heard, Dassault was reevaluating the codename "SMS" project. They had gone as far as picking an engine for it (a new 10,000lb RR model) but then last year they decided that they were reevaluating everything.

That 10,000lb number really has me confused. Obviously that makes the next Falcon plane a twinjet, but even then that is a lot of thrust for any Super-midsize jet, and especially for a falcon which has usually been a lighter and more fuel-efficient plane than the competition. I mean the large cabin Falcon 2000 only has 2 x 7,000lb engines, and the big Gulfstream G250 only has 2 x 7,500lb engines.

And even more titillating is that the articles that talked about Dassault reviewing the SMS project including its chosen 10,000lb RR engines is that they said that Dassault was interested in MORE thrust.

This all seems to indicate that the "Falcon SMS" will be unlike anything currently on the market. Which makes sense, because when Dassault introduced the Falcon 50 there was nothing like it: now, super-midsize is probably the most overcrowded category available. Why would Dassault want to compete directly with Cessna (Citation X) AND Hawker (4000) AND Bombardier (Learjet 85 and C300) AND Gulfstream (G250). Seems like an overcrowded segment to me.

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back to the topic of the Falcon 7X, does anyone have real world familiarity with it? I've read mixed things but concrete information seems so hard to get. On one hand, I've heard that finished 7Xs have been delivered way overweight and that its affecting range. On the other hand, I have read positive things about its efficiency at speed, with some operators cruising mostly at M.87 when they would cruise their G550s at M.85.

Anyone have any interesting comments on 7X real world performance?

Some may be coming out of completion heavier than anticipated as Dassault designed them with a 900/2000 type galley (nothing) Many are taking out crew rest and adding a real galley. Hence heavier, and heavier forward...so thats not good.

As far as performance, its a performer. It climbs great, is dead quiet, etc. Falcon finally went with a real wing.

Range wise 6000nm is hard. 5500 is more like it.

It will do a 5000-5500nm trip with approx 10K less fuel than a Global/G5. Some operators like that, even though it has a smaller cabin.