Duty/Rest times for Corporate Pilots
08-13-2010, 08:16 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 257
Duty/Rest times for Corporate Pilots
I'm primarily a military pilot and have no experience with corporate or Part 91 flying so forgive me if this is a dumb or obvious question. Anyway, I was wondering if the FARs have duty time/rest period restrictions for corporate pilots. I looked in the FARs and saw some in subpart K of part 91 but it appeared to apply only to fractionals. If there are no FARs governing this can corporate departments set limits to whatever they want?
08-13-2010, 10:34 AM
#2
Flying Farmer
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
A corp dept. can put up limits, but honestly most don't. They aren't required to, so why deal with it. Any good employer will keep their pilots safe as they realize the value they provide, and the assets of the company they are transporting.
08-13-2010, 10:42 AM
#3
No one's home
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,091
As Ewfflyer noted, it is not REQUIRED but many do include max duty day limits. Also from talking to a lot of Pt91 guys, when there is a max duty day it is one of the most often violated provisions in the company ops manual. And the problem with that is IF there is an incident/accident when there is a duty day violation, it probably invalidates any insurance coverage. Also, the PIC may be held responsible for violating the duty day limit.
And then you get to airlines that have the ability to operate flts under 121 and when reaching destination, declaring the DH home to be Part 91, ie no max day limit.
And then you get to airlines that have the ability to operate flts under 121 and when reaching destination, declaring the DH home to be Part 91, ie no max day limit.
08-13-2010, 10:58 AM
#4
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
Originally Posted by TipTip35
I was wondering if the FARs have duty time/rest period restrictions for corporate pilots.
Also no FAR requirement for a Part 91 operations manual.
08-13-2010, 12:50 PM
#6
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Posts: 450
Originally Posted by Ewfflyer
A corp dept. can put up limits, but honestly most don't.
-mini
08-13-2010, 12:55 PM
#7
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
Originally Posted by minitour
Is that not as common as it seems?
Sure, many (most) larger flight departments have duty/rest limits...but numerous smaller operators (either aircraft or fleet size) either don't or have flexible limits depending on a given situation.
IMO, the problem often stems from an early pilot/flight crew setting a precedent by working 16-18 hour days, which becomes an expectation of the HMFIC for later crews.
08-13-2010, 01:39 PM
#8
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 423
I have worked at a few Pt91 jobs - from one jet 3 pilot to 5 jets 30 pilots - and all have had a Ops Manual (or the like) with set duty time guidelines. All also had defined ways in which duty could be extended....to include # of crew, previous/after rest, rest areas on aircraft, circadian cycles etc...
Its good to have established procedures, but dont handcuff yourself like a 135 operation - because thats really what you dont want to be!
16-18hr days are very possible - depending on the circumstances.
Most I have worked with were based on NBAA and FSF guidelines.
Its good to have established procedures, but dont handcuff yourself like a 135 operation - because thats really what you dont want to be!
16-18hr days are very possible - depending on the circumstances.
Most I have worked with were based on NBAA and FSF guidelines.
08-13-2010, 04:10 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Corporate Captain
Posts: 164
Originally Posted by TipTip35
I'm primarily a military pilot and have no experience with corporate or Part 91 flying so forgive me if this is a dumb or obvious question. Anyway, I was wondering if the FARs have duty time/rest period restrictions for corporate pilots. I looked in the FARs and saw some in subpart K of part 91 but it appeared to apply only to fractionals. If there are no FARs governing this can corporate departments set limits to whatever they want?
The Cliff notes version: There has to be a balance between flexibility and customer service vs. human factors and safety.
My advice is to establish duty times under IS/BAO best practices, and then remain within those protections that are afforded to you. Once you start to venture outside your best practices, Murphy will get you.
Typically in Part 91, if a 15 hour day is established, your customers (employees, owners, etc.) will want 16 hours. If you establish a 16 hour day, they will want 17 hours; and so the slippery slope goes...
Don't get coerced into an unsafe situation where you can't say "no."
Fly safe...
08-16-2010, 05:00 AM
#10
Flying Farmer
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
I would assume that the "jet" departments are probably more in this realm of having duty days, seems from the prop guys I know they don't.
My job is a bit different being that I work for a Distributor of Piper/Socata. We also do the used airplane bit, so when it comes to delivering, doing demo's, or owner training, it's just left into our hands on how it is accomplished. I've pulled some very long days to get the job done, but sometimes that's just how it is, and I don't mind that.
My job is a bit different being that I work for a Distributor of Piper/Socata. We also do the used airplane bit, so when it comes to delivering, doing demo's, or owner training, it's just left into our hands on how it is accomplished. I've pulled some very long days to get the job done, but sometimes that's just how it is, and I don't mind that.
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