how low is low?
 

what is the lowest # hrs you know of a SIC being hired to fly a bizjet? i have heard rumors of people with anywhere from 250-500 hrs being hired as SICs in lears. is this possible, assuming that the pilot was buddies with the pres/ceo of the company? would insurance even allow it?

curious...

You hit the nail on the head, this is what drives the time up for corporate jobs. If you know somebody it is possible to get in lower but they are paying extra to insure you.

The lowest I've ever heard of even for flying cargo in a Lear is 1200 for insurance...

My buddy got hired to fly a Lear 35/55 with 1000TT/100ME, but he had to fly under a waiver for insurance until he had about 500 in type. So it is possible, but like others have mentioned, the employer will have to bend over and take it until you clear insurance mins.

Lax

I know of some instances where a pilot with around 1000 total and a lot of multiengine time was hired. The insurance said OK, but required SIC school (simulator).

I know a guy who was flying a LR-25 and had 600TT/100 multi. He got a few hundered hrs in the lear and then went to Eagle. It was normal at the 135 ops I worked for. Meanwhile the T'prop drivers with 4000-6000 hrs couldn't get in the lear. Needless to say, we had a dumb-a$$ owner

I've seen guys with 4-500hrs get in our lears as co-pilot. Insurance isn't as much of a problem with us though since all our Lear captains are very high time, most well over 10,000hrs.

I know of several pilots who recieved internships riding right seat in a citation. Requirements were 250TT and 25 ME, however competive is 1000TT and 100ME. The most recent person who got it though was no where near that competive mark.

Redguy what are you doing here? And where is that fancy Corona pic of yours?

I've been home alot lately and needed to wast somemore time!:D I'll have to see if I can dig that old avatar up.:D

This place won't let me load an animated avatar.

I know of a couple of 200 hour pilots that got corp jet jobs. They were 22 year old blondes just out of flight school. The are no minimums if you're a good looking female.

I was hired at Tyson Foods with 850 hrs total time. I didnt know anyone. I did however have 2000hrs as a military FE

How much will an A&P get those times down??? I currently am working midnights full time on Lears while I finish up my flight degree (in December).

It couldn't hurt. A place that has insurance mins. still won't be in a position to take you on, and a larger dept. with in-house mechanics won't be swayed much. However a smaller department that bases from a remote airport with no maintenance facilities and no mechanics could be very interested. Just know what you are getting into from the beginning - are you going to be a PILOT/mechanic or a MECHANIC/pilot. Do they have duty time restrictions and does your wrenching time factor into that, etc.

Also, you have to present the right package. Appearance, attitude, competency, work history - It's all got to be there, you're not going to get in on the tickets alone.

There are lots of corporate jobs that look for pilots with A&Ps. In most cases, the pay in the ads I've seen make it look as though they're trying to get away with paying one person for two jobs.

From what I've seen that's accually worse. I've seen several mechanic/ wanna be pilots come in at different places I've worked and the same thing always happens. They get in the maintance dept. and get stuck there because Mechanics are harder to find than pilots. We've got one working for us right now in that same position.

I know of one person who is SIC at just a nick over 500 hrs, but the boss is self-insuring.

Well, I want to be a pilot and maybe just use my A&P to fix small squawks nothing big...what I'm really afraid of is that I will get stuck being an A&P. Most places that I know of though don't really do their own maintenance. They have a mechanic or two who just fix squawks but send inspections and heavy work to places like Duncan Aviation (at least this has been my experience while working at Duncan).

Don't tell
 

Never tell of your secret A&P until you are firmly in the seat. Good A&P's are harder to come by than SIC's. I have seen many a pilot career sidetracked into a tool box. First impressions are very important. If you end up spending your first few months working on planes then they will always see you as a mechanic and you will never leave the shop. Never tell.

SkyHigh

Why SKYhigh? ,afraid they might make it as an an AVIATION Mechanic?

This is all pretty disturbing. At 500 hours, most pilots or at least 99% of them don't know jack. They just think they do. I have known of one person I met who was hired at BankAir with 400 hours or so but he happened to have also worked for them as an ops superviser and was well liked.

I realized at about 2000 hours how little I knew. This coming year I'll be looking for a right-seat corporate job with 2500-3000TT and say 750 multi and 500 turboprop and I don't like my chances of being competitive. If I lived in Florida, ok, but not up in the northeast.

Mr. I.

There are so many different ways that different companies look at the low-time co-pilot issue.

The ones with generally good intentions will take a guy with low time because they already know the individual and like his/her character and ability to learn. Another angle is that some companies feel that higher time people have the potential of coming in with "bad habits" - a low-timer is a blank canvas that can be groomed in the company way.

The companies with lesser than good intentions see the low-timer strictly as the way to get someone in at less pay and for a potentially longer stay, and aren't as concerned with quality.

Not much you can do about it, either way, unfortunately. You just have to go in with what you've got and sell yourself.

a CFI i was with was hired at about 600 and 30 multa cause he knew someone, he said first day of class when everyone went around the room and told what they did previously, he stuck out like a sore thumb

A 500 Hour FO can absolutely be as good of an FO as a 3000 hour FO if the person has the right attitude. In fact, speaking from experience, a low time FO is generally more observant has a 'can-do' attitude and isn't 'gunning' for the Captain seat. They are typically very willing to learn. The good thing about a low time FO is this...stability. If you pay them what they are worth, they stick around. A 3000 hour pilot will, in many peoples opinion, be there long enough to get a few hundred hours jet time and go fly somewhere else. A few years back I interviewed for a job flying a J41 for a charter company. I had the minimum hours to make captain and they said that I would most likely do that in 3-4 months. They passed me for someone with a lot less time and the interviews had gone really well. I was kinda stumped so I asked what went wrong. They told me that they liked me but b/c I had a bundle of previous 'fast' turboprop experience and some jet time they viewed me as a risk. They told me that they were concerned that with the experience I had I would take the type rating, fly for a short time (a year) and leave so they opted to hire someone that they could 'grow.'
Hours are great, but as we all know, it's easy to lie about your time, it's also easy to bull$hit your way through an interview. The proof is in the putting...how you fly and what you say and what your personality is like makes the decision in a lot of cases. If you can fly and are the right 'fit' many will make the hours work.
Just my .02
Take Care!

well said. I agree with you on this one... I know hours mean experience, but don't dumb down the 'lower' hour guys.. there are some that are very observant and learn quick.

I ask why I was hired with such low time and no recomendation...I was told "I can teach a monkey to fly, I want someone who will take care of the people"