Hydroxychloroquine increases Covid survival
 

Per CNN, who calls the study "surprising."

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/02/h...mpression=true


Insert popcorn emoji here

You know why hydroxychlorquine won't work? It is too inexpensive. Cost rougly 60 cents a pill compared to over 1k for a single dose of remdisivir.

That and Trump uttered the word...

Oh man. This thread is going to get political.....real real quick.

and it’s not patented, so no money for big pharma, Fauci and Gates to be made

Hilarious. The only people that call it controversial are CNN/MSNBC. To docs everywhere its just another means to an end...aka helping patients.

Did you guys bother to read the article at all? It directly states results were merely observational, not a clinical trial. It might offer insight into our continued battle against this but doesn't magically solve it nor somehow exonerate past claims of it's efficacy. From the article...

"Kalkanis said that their findings do not necessarily contradict those of earlier studies. "We also want to make the point that just because our results differ from some others that may have been published, it doesn't make those studies wrong or definitely a conflict. What it simply means is that by looking at the nuanced data of which patients actually benefited and when, we might be able to further unlock the code of how this disease works," he said."

If it turns out to ultimately be a part of effective treatments that's more than great. But insinuating otherwise for cheap political points or just to stir the pot is a tad disingenuous.

Pot meet kettle...

It should also be pointed out it was combined with dexo which has been shown to reduce mortality. Further in regards to price of treatment dexo is like a dollar a day drug and every hospital is awash with it. So the fact that it is now used so much tells you it isn’t some money making conspiracy. The conspiracy theories are just out of hand at this point.

For the original poster who may be in favor of stirring the pot or simply adverse to doing any research or fact finding, below is a very recent article that referrs to an actual study of facts that reveals an (almost) one-in-ten chance of death in their study group. Of those who survived, a significant number had cardiac toxicity issues resulting in arrhythmia, tachycardia, or fibrillation problems ... so good luck with that EKG during your next medical. Of course, if he is young enough to not need the EKG, I'm sure the answer will be "tough beans you old (senior) farts!"

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugs...0_Redacted.pdf

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safet...tal-setting-or

Take that up with Henry Ford Health System for doing the study, and with CNN for publishing the results.

I only post the news, pal.

Yeah... the drug is super unsafe. It’s only been around for nearly 5 decades and millions of people use it globally every day...

EVERY "official" study EXCEEDED the known daily dosage limit of 200mg per day as part of the study protocol. They were giving people THREE TIMES the limit because of 65 years of data about proper therapeutic dose versus toxic dose. And I'm still waiting for an "official" study that combines the PROPER dosage of HCQ with ZINC and Z Pac. It isn't the HCQ that provides the benefit. It's the ZINC but it needs the HCQ to "unlock" the cell to allow the zinc inside and interrupt reproduction of the virus.

If you don't think there has been a concerted, financially and politically motivated effort to discredit HCQ therapy, you probably think Epstein killed himself, too.

So they refuse to use a treatment that works because of it not making a profit but then show a far cheaper drug to work? HCQ has failed in like 6 countries. Also you are aware that the studies it has failed are double blind which prevents that kind of data tampering. The data is then reviewed by a data review board that monitors for incorrect data. Sorry HCQ has failed. Dexo and remedesvir have at least proven to work during double blind studies. Science giving us answers just not always the ones we want.

Those studies "failed" because they OVERDOSED the subjects which induced negative cardiac resuls and/or didn't include zinc in the protocol along with the HCQ. The STUDIES are flawed. Because they WANT them to fail.

There's a tendency to over simplify covid treatments, thinking that there's a single therapy or drug that will be a magic cure-all. The reality of covid is more complex, and covid appears to have multiple stages that require different approaches in each stage. The late stages are by far the most troublesome, and it may be that we are never able to effectively treat late stage covid very effectively (the goal would be to avoid progressing to this stage). I don't think anybody is saying that HCQ is the wonder drug that cures covid in all forms, but it keeps coming up as something that appears to help (depending on the stage and circumstances).

Dismissing HCQ as worthless seems questionable at this point. It may be useful as a preventive measure in high-risk groups or in the early stages of the disease. On the contrary, it's not unreasonable to conclude that there seems to be a purposeful effort in some quarters to discredit HCQ for political reasons.

Here is the peer reviewed article in the international journal of infectious diseases.

https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S...534-8/fulltext


And obviously some of the findings are contradictory and no doubt additional studies are even now underway to resolve that, but as far as cardiac toxicity of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, people should understand that until the rise of chloroquine resistant malaria, these drugs were mainstays of the WHO malaria control program and routinely taken by 100s of millions of people in malaria us areas for decades. While cardiac toxicity can and does occur, it did not occur with such frequency as to contraindicated its routine use in these areas.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK2616/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29858838/

These drugs are still routinely used for medical indications far less threatening than being hospitalized In an ICU for COVID 19.

Whether they actually ARE effective will probably require further testing to confirm or refute, but both Aralen (chloroquine) and Plaquenil (hydroxy chloroquine) are FDA approved drugs widely prescribed for rheumatoid arthritis and antimalarial treatment worldwide.

Sure and most of those studies have been finished. This study was observational and thus does not have a double blind control group. It makes the study interesting but stacked up against double blind studies doesn’t pull much weight. I would find its politics suspect even if the trails were held in the US. That said it failed in six countries for hospitalized patients so it is ok to move on. Multiple drugs have failed in this setting. It’s ok they weren’t designed for it.

Not only do the studies omit zinc and use too much HCQ, they are performed on hospitalized patients. The HCQ, z-pack, zinc cocktail is best used at the first onset of symptoms to slow replication. Giving it to someone 5 minutes before putting her on a ventilator then claiming it didn't work borders on fraud.
If it slows replication reliably it might also be useful as a prophylactic for people with possible exposure. That would be extremely useful for getting things back to normal.
But it sure wouldn't be as profitable as some patented concoction that could be sold for extortionate prices.

You do realize every drug has been evaluated on vent patients right? So it’s not fraud it was the design of the study. Dexo was given to people on vents and cut deaths by a third. Sure it may have some value at some point but for now it has failed. So find me a double blind study that says it has any benefit early. Preferably with thousands of patients and robust control group. Studies or it did not happen.

Show me a "sanctioned" double blind study that utilizes the protocol of PROPER dosage of HCQ combined with zinc and the Z pack for Covid positive patients at ANY stage of the disease. I'll wait.....

That's right. The study doesn't exist. Because of the reported overwhelming anecdotal success of this protocol in France and the New York area by doctors who work outside the establishment, the WHO, CDC, and FDA won't sanction a proper study of the concept. Might actually prove the technique works and they can't have that.

So one using more then the recommended dosage is not unusual in acute situations. It’s is just you would not want to do it long term which many HCQ users are. You just said you have anecdotal observations and that is not how it works. France is one of the countries in which the double blind study failed. It has succeeded anywhere in the world in a double blind study.

​​​​​​​OK. I guess you guys are right.

Just how long have you all been taking this drug?

What??? You're not? I wonder why. I mean the highest authority in the land has said that's it's OK and your own research shows it is the best thing to take. So Why not take it? Why not put your medicine where your mouth is?

Hypocritical much? LOL
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Recommendation to take hydroxychloroquine.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...ne-coronavirus

Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are still available to use by a physician but much better protocols are available. All the clinical trials I personally know of have concluded at this time. Now, based on on all the metadata analysis the benifits are still not not established and it is not the leading choice of therapy.

Whereas treatment with a combination anticoagulants, steriods, and other immune suppressent/antibody cocktail is proving to be much more effective in clinical settings and leading to a higher percentage of favorable outcomes. Compound that with remdisovir, which is in such short supply right now, there are many tools in the toolkit. The medical community is sharing information at a rapid pace and protocols are constantly being adjusted. At this time i see no clinics favoring one treatment over the other due to politics or financial gain.. especially since many of the clinics are now treating their own colleagues. Preventing patients from disseminating introvascular coagulation (DIC) and intubation are keys to favorable outcomes and preventing further multi system failure and post recovery chronic conditions.

Unfortunately, there is a rise in intubations again now, especially in Houston / San Antonio area. Fingers crossed it is curbed.

Are you always this obtuse? All the “sanctioned” studies OVERDOSED the patients with HCQ and/or did not include zinc and Zpac with the HCQ. That is the POINT. The protocol that resulted in positive anecdotal outcomes has NEVER BEEN CLINICALLY TESTED. Could it be that the “experts” don’t want to confirm the efficacy when PROPERLY used?

IF I were to contract this virus, my Doc is already on board with prescribing HCQ 200 mg with zinc and Zpac. He’s been prescribing HCQ to his Lupus patients for YEARS.
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There have been multiple multivariate studies performed.

If you want to supliment zinc feel free to just use a daily multivitamin

Zinc really has only been proven clinically to aid in marginal testosterone production. The whole zinc anion/cation and viruses has been largely debunked. That's how Zicam came and went and the massive amounts of lawsuits it had to defend. .

As far as azithromycin and covid goes. There is a lot of evidence that a broad spectrum antibiotic during seroconverion of the virus is effective at preventing secondary infection. We really have mixed and unsubstantiated results as an antiviral.

Obtuse here is the thing. There are currently four trials underway using your plan. That said you have no proof it works that isn’t anecdotal and small. I’d be happy if it works but right now there is no proof that it works. So when those trails are finished of the probe to work then great let’s go. It sounds like though you are in the wrong profession and should be putting your pharmD to better use in the research arena.

As sad as this may be, this site is one of my best for staying informed on covid treatment. The regular media is beyond disappointing.

Can you elaborate on what's going on in TX with intubations? My biggest fear (such that it is) about getting covid is that I'll end up in a hospital that doesn't yet understand the role of anti-inflammatory/coagulent treatment and is stuck on the ventilator bandwagon. Why our national dialog isn't more focused on effective treatment and less on partisan nonsense is beyond me.

if you really think this is a place to get trustworthy medical information on covid treatment, then you are beyond naive. why would you think a bunch of pilots are a better source of information than doctors or public health professionals? would you ask a physician for his opinion on how you should fly a plane or manage an in-flight emergency?

That's not what he said. He specifically referenced the media - which is agenda driven regardless of who you align with. CNN, Fox News, it doesn't matter. They all have agendas, and he's right to tune them out.

I'm talking about the medical and academic links, articles, studies, etc., that people have shared on here. Most of this never makes the news, so I appreciate this site as an aggregator of that information (from multiple viewpoints, believe it or not).

A lot of folks on here have medical backgrounds, so the constant name-calling and belittling of people's opinions is really tiresome.

If you've had your genetic data tested(I have), you can look in the raw data to determine your outcome if you get Covid.

I have Covid. Symptoms started as headaches and fevers that wouldnt quit lasting a week straight. Then last Tuesday evening, it all went to hell. The fight to breath was the scariest in my life. No point in trying to describe it casue I cant put into words. I can see how easily this could take out people that are already having other health issues. I fear desperately for my father. My O2 saturation was 85-90% with a top fever 103.8, and it was very persistent.

Conditions worsened Wednesday morning and I was ready for a trip to the ER. My fiance got me into her doctors office. This lady is a cardiothoracic surgeon who closed down her general practice to open a COVID treatment center. They have treated hundreds of Covid patients now. The whole staff even had the damn bug. She told me to turn off the news because hydroxychloroquine was being pulled through the mud and politicized for no other reason than Trump. She assured me it's a safe enough drug to use and is very effective against COVID. So I went home with a prescription of hydroxychloroquine and a Z pack. Cost at walgreens was 9 dollars.

It's been a hell of a week. The waves of chills followed by massive fevers were intense but like I said the worst and scariest was the struggle to breath. As of yesterday (Sunday), I have relief from chills/fevers, that being the first in 2 weeks. I can take full breaths. As I write this I can feel each breath more productive. My O2 is back up consistently to 95%.

This is just my experience, yours may differ. I highly doubt my trajectory last week with no therapy was heading in any positive direction. I followed my doctors prescriptions of hydroxychloroquine and Z pack and I get to sit here thanking my lucky stars. My fiance seems to be coming down with symptoms so she will follow the same protocol. There is still more healing to do but I feel on the right track so far.

If you come down with this nasty thing....well....you do you. Good luck.

Got any proof of said prescription and diagnosis? Should be easy to both black out your sensitive information on your diagnosis paperwork and suggested treatment and upload the screenshots here.

Z-pack is standard for most viral infections, to free up your immune system to fight the virus, as your immune system is constantly fighting bacterial infections.

It's great you are getting better.

Are you suggesting he is lying? He said at the end, you do you. If you only trust pharmaceuticals until their patents expire stick with the new stuff. Me? If I felt like he did I'd try everything except a ventilator.

I have been lurking this place long enough to know not to just trust the information being shared here as legit without proof. It would be simple to provide proof and I am sure he could take two minutes to do so.

Zinc...
 

The above is not exactly accurate - zinc availability within cells, and the implications of zinc deficiency, have been demonstrated and (somewhat accepted) well before this chaos of covid began. My interest in zinc levels in the body predate the covid-19 pandemic due to the "anecdotal" personal success of using zinc gluconate at the very first signs of a cold (a coronavirus) and the clear and indisputable personal impact of much shorter and less severe cold symptoms (for me and only for me - thus indisputable by others).

Attached are two references that are of very different levels of detail, focus, and intent for your and any others reading pleasure:

Zn(2+) Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA

How Zinc Can Help with Infections