I think this is a fundamentally false dichotomy. Sweden, the often cited example of the let'er rip perspective, has fared no better in an economic or public health sense. Other countries have demonstrated that it's possible to practice social distancing and mask-wearing without catastrophic economic damage. Specifically, I'm thinking of Japan and South Korea, who both have unemployment rates at 3-5% while at the same time mitigating the spread of the virus. I know we are a different country with unique challenges, but I refuse to believe that America can't rise to the occasion. We are absolutely capable of this, but we lack the will due to the spread of misinformation, wide-spread skepticism of experts, and deeply entrenched political divisions.

Honestly, the biggest challenge is the complete lack of any sense of national solidarity. This is a collective problem that requires a collective effort, but right now our collective wants to tear itself apart.

No, probably not. We have a vaccine for influenza. Only about two-thirds of kids get it and barely More than half of Adults. Optimum use of the HPV vaccination could save 30,000 people from getting cancer a year, but immunization rates For the two shot series are less than 50%. In fact, MOST adult immunization rates for tetanus, diphtheria, or pertussis are just about 50%.

And we only do that well because immunizations are required for school and college entry and the military immunized for everything. But even in the military, where you could give an order backed up by an Article 15 or worse, it was a constant battle (no pun intended) to keep troops up on their immunizations, particularly the annual influenza,

People are people. Unless we draft everybody, the compliance is not going to be there - especially for young people at minimal personal risk.

I’d forgotten the annual loyalty test of the fly shot. I battled that for most of 18 years. I had Lt Cols “redlined” (refused drill pay) because they didn’t get the shot. Finally, got the nurses between the Crowe and the sign out sheet. And that didn’t always work.

People aren’t changing, they don’t perceive a danger and aren’t going along with the mask police. The whole self-quarantine idea is madness. We’ll get to 200,000 excess deaths soon enough

Maybe if we had let the virus steamroll through our country like in places such as England and Italy, we could be all high and mighty too while conveniently forgetting a month of incredible case and death numbers.

I know what you mean but I haven’t forgotten, I just didn’t include it in the post because I made it too long to begin with. But I go back and forth on it, also can we even hold out until 2021? Is that possible?

Also, I’d wager the opposite just for conversation sake.

Wouldn't it be a shame if we did all this, hundreds of millions of lives upended, and then a solid vaccine never comes through?

And now, we have remdesivir, dexamethosone, masks, possibly the tuberculosis vaccine to help. Why do we have to go on with the same lockdown we had in April? We don’t really have to make the wager anymore. I’d also argue that the amount of contact we all have by being forced into common stores like Walmart’s all summer and visiting family more often is no different than if we just go back to watching baseball games in stadiums. At least that way some folks won’t be up all night worrying about unemployment running out. Anywho, I’ve side tracked the thread. I don’t think the European countries will be so high and mighty soon enough.

So far, we have eradicated one (1) viral pandemic pathogen by vaccination. That was smallpox, for which we had an exceedingly cheap and effective attenuated virus vaccine good for at least ten years of immunity And partial immunity out to 25 years after inoculation.

That eradication took 180 years, and was completed in 1980.

Mass immunization programs, even in the era before anti-vaxxers, aren’t cheap, they aren’t easy, and they aren’t quick.

https://i.ibb.co/3mDGnvq/69-ED27-EC-...C83-E1-F48.jpg

We don’t want to but GA is setting up a field hospital in the World Congress Center again. Last time we didn’t need I don’t think we get that lucky again. Houston is admitting adult patients to children’s hospitals. Those medicines are great but even if you survive you clog a hospital bed for a week to two weeks. As to your stadium comment Italy’s outbreak took off because of a champions league match. Also I highly doubt Europe gets nearly as bad as they were as countries reapply restrictions as needed. Look this virus sucks I just does. That said just ignoring it isn’t gonna work. So I say we work on controlling it.

wait, the WHO was instrumental in eradicating small pox? I thought they were just a propaganda arm of the Chinese

(not directed at you)

Naw. The Communist Chinese hadn’t been AROUND for that 180 years, only the last 30 or so of it. More to the point, the USSR wasn’t either but it was around for about 60 years of that time, and even when Cold War enemies combined forces and resources to go after smallpox (which had a case fatality rate of about 35%, that is 35%, over one in three, not the 3.6% that WHO was originally touting for coronavirus or the 0.4% that it appears to actually have) and yet it STILL TOOK 180 years despite a near universal consensus that smallpox had to go and an attenuated virus vaccine that was cheap and effective and basically grew itself.

(And that IS directed at you, and all the others who have not addressed the issue of how difficult a mass immunization program is just logistically, Even without the active resistance of the anti-vaxxers which we certainly will face thanks to that never to be sufficiently damned and now retracted Lancet article, even assuming we eventually DO get an effective COVID -19 vaccine)

Right but the world has a plan B suppression. The EU is doing ok. It buys time for treatments denies the virus more host to mutate in and keeps the hospital open. That said we lacked discipline to watch tv for six weeks. I actually had someone tell me the other day mask were communist. I was speechless. Look imho with this spike reservations will soften again and everyone will furlough. We should have taken the heavier pain in March. To use a medical analogy the EU did a knee replacement and it hurt bad. The US used some ice and rest and now it hurts worse and the pain will be spread out.