Or it may be entirely real, and STILL not a sufficient reason to not get vaccinated. Every single woman on birth control pills is increasing her risk of having strokes, but 12.6% of women of child bearing years still take the Pill.

It's so rare, that it does not appear to be statistical justification for not getting vaccinated. Ie, you're at more risk from covid than the vaccine. Although if the problem really is linked to AZ + birth control, then it would make sense for those women to get another vaccine. Otherwise fear and maybe hysteria will drive the problem, not numbers. Don't need that spilling over to people who are not at risk from this issue.

Many people, and most of the hysterical media do not have a clear grasp on cost / benefit analysis. What is the trade off?

Every single drug on the market probably has a risk of adverse effect - even death - for some people under some circumstances. Little kids have been killed with water overload from normal saline IV fluids, and you don’t get a more innocuous drug than normal saline.

Expecting immunizations to have no risk is unrealistic.

Scientists and officials still disagree about statistical prevalence of blood clots in AZ recipients.

Some in Europe believe it is caused by the vaccine, but should be easy to treat when patients recognize the symptoms.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...lood-clot-link

AZ completes US trials: 79% efficacy, and no increased risk of blood clots observed, and proven efficacy in older adults (foriegn trials did not address that last issue adequately for the US regulators).

Presumably that efficacy includes the various mutations, to some degree or another.

AZ has potential for use in the developing world because it doesn't require the special cold-chain handling (just normal fridge temps)


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN2BE0IB

AZ criticized for data presentation in yesterday's press release. Considering their previous confusion with stage-3 trail dosages, it might be time for AZ to slow down a bit...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN2BF1RE

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN2BF1HE

Sinovac says it's vaccine is safe for kids as young as three. This bodes well for other vaccines as well, but the west probably won't be as quick on the draw with child trials as the PRC.


https://www.foxnews.com/health/sinov...-as-young-as-3

Rick,

A comparison as to long term risk was made up thread about Thalidomide, any thoughts ?

Thalidomide did NOT cause a long-term, delayed action risk. What it actually did was interfere with a VERY critical and short development window in early pregnancy. The damage was done immediately, and taking even a single dose of Thalidomide was enough to trigger the effect. Without the prenatal technology we have today, they just didn't find out about it until birth. If it happened today they'd know within weeks, and we also do specific, methodical testing before authorizing any pharma for pregnant women or young kids... that's actually a direct consequence of thalidomide.

Vaccines don't typically cross the placental barrier, and the mRNA vaccines specifically are believed and assumed not to cross it. The placenta tends to keep out larger, complex molecular structures (HIV for example can't get to a baby that way, mother=>child infections occur via blood during birth trauma).

Viruses typically have a molecular weight in the range 10^4 - 10^5 Da. Alcohol (which definitely crosses the barrier) has a mol weight of 46 Da, mRNA is about 1000 Da. IIRC 600 Da is about the threshold for crossing the barrier, but there are also some chemical factors in addition to size. Thalidomide is 258 Da. I'm confident that the vaccine delivery package is larger than the mRNA it contains, so that's probably not crossing either.

Even if mRNA did cross, the worst that would happen would probably be an immune response in the baby. Vaccination of the mother actually can provide some immunity for a baby... the vaccine doesn't get to the baby but the mother's immune response does. Some vaccines are given to expectant mothers specifically for that reason.

Formal trials with mRNA vaccines have not been conducted on pregnant women, but that is planned soon. There is some informal data... a couple thousand women in the trails actually did get pregnant inadvertently, and there were no observed issues that could be related to the vaccines, or any statistical anomalies.