[QUOTE=NE_Pilot;3104390]this has been headline news, and the topic has been beaten to death on APC already.

so many people here asserting that there is an overcount, but not a single source or shred of evidence. the evidence points to an undercount.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/01/offi...udy-finds.html

You mean like, Sweden?

No mandatory lockdowns. Kids going to school. Mask usage south of 10% and yet they are pretty much DONE with the Coof. And yet, there are still those that think Sweden did it wrong. Look at the Worldometers graphs.

All the lockdowns, masks, and socialist distancing in the world isn’t going to stop the susceptible from catching this bug. Isolate the vulnerable. Treat the sick. Mourn the dead and move the F on.

And yes, there has been a positive case in my household. A serious one especially considering she has COPD. But she recovered as have ALL the other people in my life that contracted it. More than half of them with no symptoms whatsoever.

No one who actually understands the situation views Sweden as a model. If anything, Sweden is a cautionary tale

"Sweden’s grim result — more death, and nearly equal economic damage — suggests that the supposed choice between lives and paychecks is a false one: A failure to impose social distancing can cost lives and jobs at the same time.

Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.

The elevated death toll resulting from Sweden’s approach has been clear for many weeks. What is only now emerging is how Sweden, despite letting its economy run unimpeded, has still suffered business-destroying, prosperity-diminishing damage, and at nearly the same magnitude of its neighbors."

Sweden's example doesn't really prove your point

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/b...ronavirus.html

Because the NYT is an impartial voice in this period of collective lunacy.

Sweden has fewer total deaths than the state of Michigan, a similar sized population in a state that locked down with some of the most draconian policy in the US. Tell me again how lockdowns worked.

[QUOTE=furloughfuntime;3104393]From your article:

That is a pretty big assumption on the part of the researchers. We already know suicides and ODs are on the rise. We also know people have not been going to the hospital. So the whole undercount is based on the thought that the majority of excess deaths have to be COVID-19, yet no evidence for that assumption is given.

Once again, what evidence is there for this claim? Where are the articles that show someone was incorrectly listed as a non-COVID-19 death when it was clearly one? There are plenty of examples of people who died from accidents and gunshots who were listed as COVID-19, yet none that I have seen in the other direction....

Edit: There must be evidence that these excess deaths must to be attributed to COVID19, it is not axiomatic. Dismissing other potential reasons without evidence is not science.

It seems there are a few of you who are a little tone deaf when forming your arguments. Posting a NY Times article to defend an argument will result in a quick set of blind eyes and deaf ears. How many Fox News articles have you used for sourcing? I think the safe assumption is approximately zero, and there's a reason for that.

CNN
Fox News
MSNBC
Drudge Report
New York Times
Facebook status updates
Stories from my friend's girlfriend's dad's pool guy

Etc...

Worthless when attempting to form, defend, or source an argument.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk. Carry on.

Just because you dislike the source doesn't mean the information contained is wrong. Here are the hard facts. Quibble if you like but:

"Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States."

"Sweden suffered a vastly higher death rate while failing to collect on the expected economic gains."

Now if you have a source with evidence, I'd be happy to look at it. But saying you don't like my source while maintaining how great things are in Sweden is delusional. It's an unpleasant reality, but retreating to fantasy is more cowardly than trying to confront the reality of the situation.

What were those expected gains and how far short did they fall?

We are barely at quarter time....
These premature conclusions need a term added to make them more accurate.

Simply append this to your quotes.....'so far',

You mean like more deaths in Michigan with draconian lockdowns than an equivalent population in Sweden? And a totally flat case load and death rate curve (Worldometers) than the rest of the planet? You mean EVIDENCE like that?