Masks Up Front
 

As the pandemic worsens again I've been rethinking what I do at work. Until now I've worn masks until the cockpit door was closed and then removed during flight. Put it on again upon arrival.

Every pro pilot has 2x/yr FAA medicals forever looming over their heads.

Yearly EKGs + the numerous reports of how Covid can damage your heart & lungs (& other organs) even if you aren’t hospitalized plus the science suggesting that 3 of the biggest dangers are:

1. close proximity (check),
2. time together (check) and
3. poor air circulation (sometimes yes/sometimes no)

Im thinking of trying to wear a mask inflight as well. If the kid at ChickFilA can do a whole shift wearing a mask, I should be able to do the same.

I hate even having a cold but even if I was one of the lucky asymptomatic ones I’d hate to give it to my wife ...or anyone else.

So does anyone have any suggestions for types of masks or manufacturers that are comfortable enough to wear for a 12-14 hour day, don't hinder communication and are easy to get off in the event the O2 needs to be quick donned?

Thanks in advance for your (hopefully respectful) thoughts.


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For self protection, you have to wear an N95, or better yet, N99 or N100 mask.

And never touch any surface touched by any other person without sanitizing your hands.

And never touch the mask unless you throw it away, sanitize your hands, and replace it with a new one.

And never eat food touched by another person unless you can verify that they, sanitized their hands, are wearing a mask that they never touched, aren't infected and sneezed/breathed on your food, or touched a contaminated surface and then your food without first sanitizing their hands.

And never touch a door handle without sanitizing your hands.

And never touch a surface in the airport or your aircraft without sanitizing your hands, making sure to not accidently touch your face.

Are you starting to get the problem? Masks are only a solution in specific situations.

You’re welcome to fly with a mask if you want. Don’t expect me to wear one.

Do it, Zap! Better yet, show up wearing this...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...949ec32f02.jpg

Only on PHX trips.


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Good points. It is pretty much impossible to 'live' without encountering hostile microorganisms. Fortunately, the body has evolved some fairly sophisticated and effective countermeasures.

It has never been a bad idea to wash your hands before touching your face.

Also, it has never been a bad idea to pay for disability insurance (critical that it be specific to pilots). Get a little arrhythmia due to post COVID-19 complications (which incidentally are statistically always avoided with proper prophylaxis, but that is another argument), retire and enjoy tax free income until you can collect social security.

For the last time: disability insurance seems expensive when you don't need it; so do most insurance products. If you are a professional pilot making a reasonably higher salary than you can make doing whatever else you might be qualified to do and you don't have disability insurance, you are likely one deferred medical from bankruptcy.

I respectfully put forth the notion that placing oneself in that position with knowledge aforethought is utterly moronic. Begin with the premise that you are going to lose your medical long before you turn 65 and plan accordingly. If you manage to keep it, the delta between your salary minus what you paid in disability insurance and the disability payout will still be positive (if it turns negative at a certain age then drop the insurance). Yes, if you roll the dice, don't carry insurance and make it all the way, you will have a little bit more money. But if that is your choice (a statistically foolish one) and you roll 'snake eyes,' don't come whining. You knew it could happen but didn't plan for it. I won't feel sorry for you.

I am not trying to be mean or pedantic. This is very serious business. You don't have to be in this profession long to meet someone who lost a medical. Don't be an idiot; plan for it.

/rant off

Easy...took my union negotiated 6 month leave at 50 hours a month. I’ll let the scientists on here go back and forth about refusing to wear a mask; I’ll take my time off, be back in April when hopefully vaccines are going out to those smart enough to get one.

I regularly transport actively ill COVID patients in a rolling boo-boo box. I wear an N95. They wear a surgical mask. Haven’t caught the boomer remover yet. Take from that what you will.

For someone in a job where risk mitigation is key, you don’t seem to have a great grasp of it.

I think you are not seeing the shades of grey. It's not black or white.

Now, I'm not suggesting wearing a mask up front is practical. I have not done that and am not planning to do it. I just accept the relatively small risk that the other pilot may have it and give it to me. Having said that, I should be immune for some time having recently been through Covid-19.

However, to say that mask wearing only makes sense if you do all the things you listed above, all the time, is simply not true. They can reduce your exposure to the virus even if you don't use them 100% correct all the time and don't follow operating theatre style hygiene protocol. Especially when considering that the vast majority of infections are airborne through droplets and aerosols and not so much form touching contaminated surfaces and then your face. It's common sense really. And what the experts have been saying for many months now.

So why the black/white take on masks? Sure, when by yourself or out in the open with nobody in close proximity for any significant length of time, no need for masks. However, generally speaking, once you spend a good deal of time in close proximity to someone, both should wear a mask to protect each other. Indoors even more so. And if not everyone is wearing masks then the person that wants to protect him/herself should be wearing at least a N95.

Well said from someone who obviously doesn't understand the risks of wearing a mask improperly.

Masks are completely appropriate in specific situations. Worthless in others. Improperly used they add to the danger.

If you wear your seatbelt wrapped around your neck, that improper use adds to the danger. Should seatbelts not be worn because of that threat?

You over-inflate the risks of improper wear to justify your own personal opinions on mask wearing. Nothing more.

My opinions came from a long talk and question answer session with my friend who is a cardiologist and uses masks in her practice every day. You don't know what you haven't bothered to learn.

What your cardiologist has learned is about remaining sterile in a surgical setting. The tolerances are a little tighter in that scenario. Cloth masks, while not as effective at sterilizing as operating room masks, have been shown to be at least partially effective in blocking transmission. The study has been posted on this forum multiple times. You've ignored it because it goes against your preferred conclusion.

And you've concocted these scenarios where mask wear is somehow more dangerous than not.

Let's keep it simple:
If more virus is mitigated through mask wear than transmitted through improper use, then that is considered a net positive.

Covid is only ONE risk. The problem with your arguments is that you are only focused on Covid. Again you don't know what you aren't willing to learn and are too closed minded to investigate.

I'm only focused on COVID? It is the COVID forum, after all. I give your dodge a C-.

But please, enlighten us with your wisdom. Open my closed mind.

I bet you strap that mask on and say "Yes Sir" if your charter owner tells you to put a mask on. Im sure they don't care about your opinion on mask usage. Do you tell them its dangerous to wear in some situations?

To the creator of this thread: a lot of good options at your local chain retail stores for comfortable cloth masks. Possibly options at small business clothing stores too (havent seen any near me but i rarely go to that kind of place). My friend works at old Navy and has been giving me some throughout the last few months. They are a lot more comfortable than the "medical type" blue cloth masks that a lot of companies issue employees.

Diseases caused by contact and contaminated surfaces and food.

Tuberculosis
Chicken pox
Enterovirus
Strep
MERS
Haemophilus Influenzas (meningitis is the most common)
MRSA
Pertussis


These are some of the diseases that are passed by contact. Masks can trap these viruses and bacteria and provide a transmission vector.
Masks also trap bacteria that are normally harmlessly exhaled and cause increased mouth ulcers and acne problems.

I will not disclose who I work for but it's not charter. The owner does not wear or require anyone around him wear them and is very knowledgeable. I fly for one family and a business owner who has information you may not have. You should avoid snarky childish posts that illuminate your ignorance and bias.

If the other guy doesn’t wear it, it doesn’t do anyone any good. What if they have it and you don’t? I personally tried to keep it on at first but I quickly realized if you want to have a conversation or certain scenarios like hot days it’s just not comfortable. I just found its harder to talk at higher cabin altitudes as it does block some ability to get full air in when talking. Maybe it’s just my type of mask though. I guess you can try to wear a bandana, that probably doesn’t do much at all but at least it blocks something where you’re not full on projecting to the other guy. I think also keeping the vents open helps too. I think pilots are probably more careful in general since getting it means you won’t be flying for a while.

It is far more important to clean the surfaces in the flight deck and sanitize you hands than to wear a mask while flying.

Interesting. I'm willing to concede that everything you've said is within the realm of possibility. But now we shift to what's more probable.

What are the chances of an unmasked individual becoming a vector for COVID vs. the chances of a masked individual acquiring TB solely from improper mask wear? As of November 2020, I'd say the odds are overwhelmingly in the COVID column. Also, every illness that you've listed (except for extremely rare MERS and bacterial meningitis) has a treatment and is not known to cause fatalities.

Our actions should be defined by that risk management.

And with regards to increased risk of acne breakouts, all the teenagers of the world are just gonna have to take one for the team. People are dying.

No he got you pretty good. This was a weak come back. If people decide to run though red lights since inconvenient, should we not have traffic lights? Masks don’t keep it sterile, they block your transmission by 50 to 90%. It’s part of the general process of keeping distance and washing hands.

Again this concept doesn’t do much good once the next sick person comes in the 100% sterilized flight deck.

Inconvenient was never mentioned. The majority of the world's population does not need a mask in most of their daily routine. You don't have to convince me, it's ok to just let it go. Perfectly ok to just assume I am wrong.

Transmission of what exactly?

Haha....what a statement that is.

But come on.....do you personally have to empty the lav once your all "knowledgeable" owner drops a big deuce in the lav?

Help my ignorance and bias, shed some light, I mean "illumination", on my snark. Because none of your 800+ posts are based on ignorance and bias...

Our externally serviced lav is taken care of by the FBO, so no. Churlish comments made by small a mind don't require me to elaborate. I will just leave it at, my employer is FAR more knowledgeable than you.

Just flew with a guy who did one leg with an asymptotic individual who tested positive 2 days later. Both masked up the whole flight. The guy I flew with got sick one day after being told he flew with someone who tested positive. Masks in the cockpit do nothing with the long exposure time.

I need to go lookup “churlish” in the book of words...I’ll be back

So both guys noses and mouths were covered? Based on my observations, those masks come down at some point even if it isn't long.

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When you sit 4 feet away from another person for 1+ hours then no mitigation efforts will stop you from getting infected if the other person is carrying the virus. Proximity and exposure time is the key factor when enclosed for long durations (CDC says >15 minutes)... masks or no mask.

Here’s my last line of defense. I use this at home to prevent bringing something home and giving it to the fam as an asymptomatic spreader. I use it when out of the house in addition to wearing a mask, and I use it on the flight deck when a mask is impractical to minimize the risk of catching something. My favorite scientist Tweeted this out on 30 September.

https://twitter.com/foundmyfitness/s...93720684523520

https://www.hellofend.com

For the record, I am 55 yrs old, normal weight for my height w/A+ blood type. I take 5000 IU D3, 1000 mg of Liposomal Vitamin C 2x/day, 100% of recommended daily allowance of Zinc, Drink lots of green tea because it’s a zinc ionophore, a low dose aspirin, and 5-10 mg of Melatonin at night. I do this based on my best friend from high school who specialized in internal medicine and from watching Dr. Rhonda Patrick PhD’s Covid Q&A sessions she did back in March and April on her foundmyfitness.com site. She then went on Joe Rogan in May and explained it at Joe’s level in the first 90 minutes of a three hour podcast.

https://youtu.be/4_ZJ8YDOX6g

Go with Quercetin over Green tea.

I don't know for sure, but Melatonin really screws me up the day after taking it. I have nightmares every time I take it, and I'm so tired the next day. Do you have any side effects?

I get lots of quercetin from my green smoothie with the apple peel.

I’ve seen various recommendations for melatonin from 0.1-10.0 mg / day. I believe Dr Rhonda in her Covid Q&A #1 said to play with the dosage to find what works. Take what you can without being groggy the next day. I have no side effects but I know people who say it gives them weird dreams or makes them tired the next day. My Fitbit sleep data looks good. Average about 7.5 hours per night, 1 hour to 1.25 of deep and same amount of REM, I just have more awake time (@ 1 hour/ night) than I’d like to see

Tend to agree, mask is pretty unlikely to save you if your crewmate is infectious. Might possibly reduce the dose you get, and lessen severity... that's anecdotal, not proven to my knowledge but certainly logical.

It's still too distracting and irritating for me (in addition to fogging my glasses unless I concentrate on breathing slowly).

Im absolutely convinced Seneca Pilot and Senecacaptain are the same user, but the owner is bi-polar.

Anyhow, Seneca Pilot has been on my ignore list weeks ago. I do, however, enjoy his alter-ego “Senecacaptain” who doesn’t appear
to be a gigantic Delta Bravo.