DPA
 

What was the result of the DPA card count? Thx

They sent out an email a few hours ago to their followers that said 6860 signed a card at one time or another, of those 6860 about 500 are retired, and one third currently beyond the required 1 year currency.

They thanked a few donators, with one Atlanta MD-88 captain contributing $500.

They'll save whatever money they have left to pay for ongoing legal fights and TC's grievances.

On Chit Chat, Victor Loop's head is exploding as we speak.

So maybe 4000 active?

Not even that many.

Slightly less, but around 25% +/- of Delta pilots. It's a similar value of those who generally vote No, generally oppose ALPA, are generally right-wing conservative, etc.

We're a cross section of society. Nothing good or bad about that.

I thought DPA stood for Democrat pilot association.....

Most of the DPAers seem to be more hardcore Trumpers, while the moakies tend to be pretty hardcore liberals.

So far every captain I've flown with has been right wing. The DPA sympathizers vs haters seems roughly 50/50. NYC 717 were mostly in favor of DPA, ATL 717 an even split, ATL 7er has the most moakies who hate DPA. Just anecdotal observations from one guy.

If it means anything; from my recollection, NYC 717 was probably a few more civilian than military (and a lot more fNWA), ATL 717 was roughly 50/50, and I haven't flown with a single ER captain who wasn't former mil.

Feels like DPA is a cottage industry, not even a burr under the saddle.

And where do the Malone guys fit in?

How much money has dpa collected??? And if it's not representing it's members why are they not giving back the money? How much money is in the kitty? And where did the donations go?

Just curious how that works since it's not an official union or another way of saying it, it never took off...?? Anyone else wonder about this?

Nope never once wondered about it, I'm just thankful DPA was here to oversee and keep ALPA on their toes during the contract. Say as you want but the pressure from DPA helped get us this contract. Besides I'm really sick of the pathetic way DALPA has done business in the last decade...

Nope. Somebody handed you the wrong envelope.

Saying DPA helped us get a contract is like saying a flight attendant asking 5 times, "Did you call the hotel yet?" gets the van there sooner.

DPA was funded by donations not mandatory payroll deductions, I don't think any contributors are looking for a refund check. Did Hillary return all her donations after she lost?

DPA helped expose the way ALPA does business, and organized a portion of the pilot group to do something about it. DPA wasn't directly negotiating with the company so in that regard they had nothing to do with the contract; but to bury your head in the sand and pretend they didn't influence pilots to take a stand is preposterous. Exactly who started the orange campaign which was then adopted by ALPA?

You were not here for a lot of the DPA saga. One of the very first things they pledged was to shut down on 31 Dec 2010 if they did not have enough votes for a election. The reason they gave was that to present a divided pilot group to management during negotiations would reduce our leverage and result in a sub par contract.
They ignored their own promise when they failed to get the required cards.
Failing in that pledge they put out a series of often bizarre communications highlighted by the abortion letter. Many of those letters were quickly pulled down because they were so factually wrong. If DPA had even been within a country mile of the ill effects of contract 2012 you would not even be on the property as there would have been no hiring.
If you fly with any former NWA pilots ask them about the DPA founder and some of the things he did prior to the merger. It might be enlighting.
As far as the donations they don't need to be returned but there should be a full accounting of where the money went and is going. There are rumors that might be problematic.

Hmmm, I've been here since 1985, I think I was here for all the ALPA saga as well....

He didn't quote you....and everything Sailing mentioned was factual.

There should be an accounting of the money received, in the spirit of transparency.

You quoted me but went off on a complete tangent. What you wrote about TC and DPA pre-merger may be true but had nothing to do with my post.

I made 2 points:

1: You agree the donations shouldn't be returned, which is why I quoted snowdawg in the 1st place as he stated they should be. I didn't say anything about their accounting; however, I would agree with you on that point. TC wanted accountability regarding ALPA's money, I think DPA should do the same.

2: I disagree with Karnak regarding DPA not having any influence over the most recent TA which you didn't mention at all. Ignoring facts that don't fit your agenda don't make them go away.

Exactly. All the world is a critic.

DALPA led the airline piloting profession through and out of the lost decade with adult leadership. Just look at the data/pay rates not the anecdotal nonsense. The Delta pilots "no" vote was also critical in United getting our deal, Delta's followup and United's me too.

DPA is, was and always has been nothing but a joke just like UPA and the rest of the rump groups.

yep. sailing has all the facts. they might be completely wrong facts, but none the less.....sailing has'em all.

just wondering if any of that donated money is yours? or are you losing sleep over what other people choose to do with their money?

would you support a similar exercise with alpa national? Because to get that kind of info...you have to make an appointment, travel to HQ, sit in a room with no recording devices, under the observation of a monitor....and THEN you can see what your money is being spent on..

Never paid a dime to DPA or sent in a card. At times I felt DPA had it's place in keeping Alpa looking over its shoulder, worried it might lose the Big D's dues... a certain big hit to Alpa National. But in the end I never thought DPA would ever get enough cards. If they did and tried to usurp Alpa, would fail.

Now I have no interest (even less than before) and wish they would just go away. We are better off with Alpa and (gasp) Alpa National. Our fight for better contracts is mostly up to us. But our fight for a career is a fight we have to wage on Cap Hill. Through our fellow Alpa represented airlines and the PAC we have an uphill battle on The Hill.

With that in mind, DPA lurking around is not going to help us on either front. As we showed last year by voting down the Donatelli Turd, we can make progress with Alpa if only we show unity. We can do much better in the future, but DPA's pipe dream was blown up by Alpa last year.

It's time for DPA to hit the road. Throw a big party or give it to a conservative charity... either way, just go away. Your time was over a long time ago.

Tail
NWA 2001

Spot on....

Well said...

None of my money went to DPA, I do not care what other people do with their money, DPA said they wanted transparency...so they should provide it.
ALPA member for several years (30+), 6 airlines later, 4 ALPA, 1 Foreign (no union), 1 "ops group" that eventually went ALPA. For all its issues, still better than no union or an in house.
If you support change than run for office, DPA should have more than enough members to control the majority of the bases if the choose. ALPA is only as good as its members.

so since alpa policy is to conduct business and fiscal affairs with complete obscurity and concealment from membership that makes it A-ok with you?

got it.

if you really don't care what other people do with their money....what was the point of your post? Am I missing the screaming mob of those who donated money who feel short changed on the promised transparency?

apparent the only one who does...is you. who contributed not a single cent.

Absolutely not.

yet you proudly supported such corruption for 30+ years.

got it. again.

Where and when did I ever say I supported corruption? The corruption I know about, the individual went to prison. Do I agree with everything ALPA has done? No...when I had questions, I talked to the reps and or chairmen, got answers that I was ok with.

So you're saying you know about corruption and you have not done anything about it? If you have evidence about fraud and corruption take it to the authorities.

Bob, I get that it didn't go the way you were hoping for with DPA..you always have the ability to resign your membership.

When you keep reaching the wrong conclusion check your premises and LM-3 reporting requirements while your at it. ALPA and all unions have far greater financial reporting requirements than any corporation.

I find that people who assert such demonstrably wrong claims usually just don't like unions.

yeah...those kennedys were real union haters....all those hearings and allegations of corruption in the teamsters.

anyone who suggests a cba is anything less than transparent....is obviously a union hater.

And here I thought we were talking about ALPA and this century. You're like the tourists who think Al Capone is still running around Chicago.

BTW, ever heard about the global financial crisis and the corporate corruption that caused it? And you think the largest and most successful pilot union in the world is a problem.

Union hater? Of course not.

good thing that transparent cba had its ducks in a row and had installed contractual firewalls against those evil corporatists when that economic meltdown occurred....this century.

oh wait, my mistake....that was those other pilot unions.

Please cite examples of contractual firewalls that non-ALPA unions used to withstand 9/11 and Chapter 11 challenges. We're all ears.

No kidding. I'm all ears, too.

prior to delta filing the alpa national chair personally informed me that up until very recently no one had ever heard of airline bankruptcies and pension failures.

to suppose such a ridiculous assertion....one would have to be incompetent....a liar....or a crook. Or depending on what the situation requires...maybe all three.

But I wouldn't put transparent in the same universe with such leadership.

the major independent pilot groups in the industry did a more competent job at shielding their members from the economic calamity of the last decade.

Really? Fedex still has a pension, suffered very little contractual degradation and they are and were ALPA. The IPA fared similarly well too. Why? Cargo pays.

NWA (ALPA) pilots have a frozen A plan just like the APA. Why? Those airlines had more cash in BK.

CAL (ALPA) pilots have a frozen A plan because they didn't have a post 9/11 BK.

So the problem is not ALPA, it is the financial health of the individual corporations.

So I will ask again, please cite examples of contractual firewalls that non-ALPA unions used to withstand 9/11 and Chapter 11 challenges. We're all ears.

APA? yeah they have a frozen A plan....but you forgot about the other part. half a story, is no story.

CAL? well, they had their bankruptcy pre 9/11. twice if my memory serves. I guess alpa national missed those press releases.

fedex? are you seriously claiming alpa credit for their retirement footprint?

Of course even as the history of EAL/WAL/PAA was being absorbed, dalpa operatives were apparently as equally oblivious as national.

the industry record of airline bankruptcies is inarguable, and the record of afl-cio labor group employers who sought reorganization is even more substantial.

yet since the 1973 pbgc legislation, there was virtually no effort on the part alpa to mitigate the economic damage from what became the accepted if not preferred mechanism by corporate operatives to shed maturing, and ever more expensive employee pension obligations. bankruptcy court.

do you have any idea what the first piece of paper delta management put on the judges desk, the morning after the day they filed the reorganization case?

and even though there are still alpa pilot groups with DB plans, can you cite a single effort, let alone an accomplishment, that would help insulate them, from the same fate as those who have already been through reorganization?