Doctorate Level Scheduling Question
 

I have a 3 day trip I'm trying to PD and cover with PB days from last year. Problem is reserve coverage.

If I APD the trip, my schedule will show APD and I cannot white slip over it. But, if I call Scheduling and use PB days from last year, my schedule now says TOFF.

The question: Can I now white slip the same trip back?

Denny

If reserve coverage is a problem then you can't PD. If you want to drop the trip use the APD for a single day and then WS around that APD. Most likely your best bet is APD the 1st or last day of the trip depending what's available. You will not be paid for this trip nor do I think you can put PB days on top of any APD days.

If you can PD, then call CS and have them put PB days on top of days you'd like to be paid. You can fly on top of TOFF.

If you have vacation remaining then you can use up to 3 IVDs which act exactly like an APD except you are paid. IVDs run immediately before APDs so they potentially have a higher chance of dropping a trip than an APD.

I understand all of that. I have 7 PB days from last year. In a perfect world, I would PD the trip, call crew scheduling and use 3 days to cover it. Then whiteslip the same trip, PD it again and use 3 more days. The trip is worth 21 hours so now I would be at 42 hours using 6 days. I then PD a HKG trip that on day one is worth 14+ hours. I'm now at 56+ hours for 7 days. I then actually fly one 4 day HKG trip. I only fly 4 days for February and get paid for 82.5 hours. Like I said, in a perfect world. So far, the world is far from perfect but it has potential.........

Problem is there is next to nothing in open time so I have very little to work with this month.

The question is..............since APD would no longer be on my schedule even though I used it (because TOFF takes its place), can I pick up a trip over the day used for APD? I suspect so but was wondering if anyone has tried it. I'm gonna give the regular PD awhile longer and see what happens. Just thinking about what I'm going to do if it doesn't drop by the 31st........

Denny

I thought you could use unlimited IVD's? Is it only 3?

You can IVD twice in a vacation year.
Once, for 1 day. The other time for 3 days.

Can not pick up a trip over an APD. Hard day off, just like a vacation day. I'm no sched guru but I'm pretty sure this is correct.

Read up on IVD. You can 2/2 and 4/0 as well.

You can IVD up to twice. In aggregate you can use 4 days of future, unused vacation.

You can do 4/0? I would think the best you can do is 3/1. To use IVD don't you have to have vacation available in a later month during the vacation year?

Denny

I understand this is the normal case but..........there are three months out of the year (Jan, Feb, Mar) where you can APD a trip AND use PB days to cover it for pay. To do this Scheduling has to manually go in and take APD off your schedule and insert TOFF. What I'm wondering is if this change now allows one to white slip a trip over the day that USED to say APD. Hence the name of this thread......

Denny

I’m new so take it for what it’s worth, but that is my understanding of the srh and pwa

+1 or +2 each (number of times & aggregate days) for winners of the sick leave contest....

You are crossing streams.

There are 2 issues you're dealing with which are both contractually illegal.

1: CS should not put a PB day on top of an APD.
2: You cannot fly on top of an APD.

That said, if you can convince a scheduler to put TOFF on top of an APD (which you may be able to do, this is a manual process JAN-MAR and there's lots of new people in CS) then there is no way icrew or a subsequent scheduler will know that your APD was used on that day. You will probably be able to fly on top of TOFF. This is an IT shortfall, not an intended consequence of the contract.

Agreed on #2. Can you provide a citation for #1? I ask because it’s always been my understanding of exactly what the OP posits, ie, that a prior-year PB can be placed on a PD or an APD in Jan - Mar....

Where does it say you get additional IVD opportunities with the sick leave contest?

Also is the IVD usage on the same annual schedule as the yearly vacation calendar?

Referencing the PWA; page 23-22, line 20 specifies "A pilot will not be awarded a white slip, GS, GSWC, IA, IAWC, yellow slip, or swap for a rotation that is sheduled to operate on a day on which IVD or APD appears on his schedule."

Line 39 goes on to say "pilot may, at his request, recover pay and credit for rotations and reserve on-call days dropped pursuant to a PD, QPD, IVD, or APD, by utilizing:"

I was mistaken in bullet 1. You can be paid for the APD. The key verbiage in the contract appears to be "where an APD appears on the pilot's schedule". Once that verbiage is off your schedule then it appears you're cleared weird.

My apologies for the incorrect previous post, and good original question. Made me dig around the contract and learned a couple new things.

TOFF is what goes on top of the APD/PD until resources pulls the banked PD day out of your bank, the APD usage is in the schedule history and it's not a favor, it's procedure. If you get a Scheduler that doesn't know how to do it, ask for another one.

Nope, you can't fly ON the APD date but you CAN fly in the footprint of the trip that it dropped. EX: APD used to drop a four day starting on Jan 1. The APD goes on the 1st and drops the entire four day. You WS/GS a four day reporting on the 2nd...fair and legal. You can't slip on the 1st as the APD will inhibit it.

The PB day is drawn from the bank and has to go on top, rather in PLACE of the APD, there is no other mechanism for that to happen.

Thanks! This is what I was looking for........all I can ask is........are you positive about your last sentence? During the PCS process will the computer actually see the APD under the TOFF day and not award a trip?

Denny

1) 14.K.4.a. & b.

2) I don't understand this question?

100% positive. As long as the APD is on your line it will bypass for THAT DAY so don't include it in your slip parameters for it to consider but if it's in the footprint...shadow....whatever of the trip the APD dropped? You're golden. Again, think 1-4, 1 is the APD so no bueno. 2-whenever no APD, you're a million bucks....

Your question is do the 4 days of IVD renew Jan1 or Apr1 or hire month (like APD)? I understood it from TA roadshows to be Apr1. Anyone else confirm?

It only makes sense that they renew with each vacation year. So they answer to that would be April 1 of each year.

WickedSmaht, thanks!

Denny

You are correct.

Contract reference is 7.I.1.

Plus in section 14.K.4, if you're in one of the categories that receives supplemental vacation days, that day can be used as an IVD instance. IE, if you're in the <6% category you now have 5 IVDs in 3 instances and if you're in a <5.5% category you now have 6 IVDs to be used on 4 occasions.

EDIT: it also appears you must convert vacation to an IVD from the same vacation year. For grins I tried to IVD my day of supplemental vacation in September '18 into January and Icrew gave me an error message "MATCHING VACATION RANGE NOT FOUND".

No problem amigo!

Pile on and clarification. I have a 5-day in February . I APD the last day of the trip, and white slip a 5 day that overlaps the first 4 days of the trip. Can scheduling then put a single Banked PB day over the APD, saving my APD, or will they have to use 5 of my PB days? I know when I PD they will only put PB days starting on the beginning of the trip(use 1 or more PB days). Thanks in advance.

I sent this question to the union. The gist of the answer is: 1. You will not get your APD back. (Which I didn't expect.) 2. TOFF will cover the APD but.......CS will move APD to a different day. I suspect you can talk to CS and have them put it on a day you are good with but I don't know for sure.

Denny

I was thinking this would be a good thread to maybe pin and use as a place to ask scheduling questions..........maybe?

Denny

Another scheduling question......

Here is the situation. There is only one open time trip in my category for the rest of the month and I don’t want to WS it. I’m going to PD a three day trip. If I call CS immediately after it drops and use PB days from last year to cover the 3 days, I will be severely limited in white slipping a trip by my Max Pickup.

Question: Can I wait till later in the month to call and cover the trip with PB days...........after I get a white slip that gives me the hours I want? In other words, is there a time limit on covering a PD with payback days or do you just have to do it by the end of the month?

Denny

I know you can wait a few days, but not sure how long, or if you can do it after the drop date passes. I would ask a scheduler. If you drop and pickup quickly, you’re not limited to the max pickup.

Thanks. I was able to white slip what I wanted. I didn’t think the trips would become available like they did. I’m going to call and use the SUP days to cover it. The only thing is.......one of the trips I WS’d is the same one I dropped. I’ll have to try and explain it to CS coherently!

Denny

Denny-
When c/s messes it up and they probably will, pm me and I will give you T.E.'s phone/email so she can sort it out.

Well, here is the latest. I have 2+ hours of max pick up. CS says they cannot add the time because it exceeds my max pick up. It is considered pay and credit. They won't let me do it. I have approximately 83 hours of credit. If I drop the trip and don't pick it back up, I can do it. But I dropped it then picked it back up then called them to cover it.

I think it's BS. In the past, I have exceeded the max pick up by a tremendous amout. Just last year a quick check shows one month credited 115 and another 112. That is credit. I'm asking to show credit of 104.

I'm kinda PO'd right now but I think I'll try and bid a regular line next month and take some time off...

Denny

Call them back after shift change. <---- doctorate level scheisse