Questions for you Mega-Backdoor Roth'ers...
07-01-2018, 12:14 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 159
One more dumb question. When you change your traditional contributions to Roth, does Fidelity break down the difference w pre-tax vs Roth contributions? The money all grows, but big difference at the end w RMD’s etc. Just wondering how it is accounted for.
07-01-2018, 12:35 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,504
Originally Posted by gliderguider
One more dumb question. When you change your traditional contributions to Roth, does Fidelity break down the difference w pre-tax vs Roth contributions? The money all grows, but big difference at the end w RMD’s etc. Just wondering how it is accounted for.
Yes they do. I have an overall 401k balance and can expand it to see a traditional and a Roth balance.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
07-01-2018, 01:23 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,909
Originally Posted by tennisguru
Another way to look at it is that you're effectively investing more with your ROTH than with a traditional, assuming you're putting in the max 18.5k either way. With a traditional, when you factor in taxes, you're really only investing ~12k for yourself in the future. 18.5k put into a ROTH is as if you were investing ~24k into a traditional since the whole 18.5k is yours for the future.
To make an actual comparison, you then also need to know what your tax rates will be in perpetuity. Since that's not possible, plenty of people (myself included) value diversified income streams approaching and into retirement.
07-01-2018, 02:46 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,458
There are several points to ponder regarding Roth vs Traditional.
-With a Roth you are effectively investing more for retirement, because the taxes are pre-paid. As Ted74 pointed out, 18k into a Roth is equivalent to 24k in a Traditional assuming equal income tax burdens now and at retirement.
-Roth IRA does not have a required minimum distribution (RMD), which provides flexibility in timing your withdrawals.
-Roth IRA is a better estate planning tool due to the lack of RMD.
-Having a mix between Roth and Traditional allows you to steadily withdraw from the traditional, but still take a boatload (or truck load, plane load, Porsche load, etc) all in one year without bumping up your tax bracket.
-If you expect your tax bracket will be substantially lower in retirement, a Roth may not be an ideal choice. This is often the case for those nearing retirement.
-Instead of paying the taxes up front on a Roth, it may make more sense to defer 18K in a traditional plan and invest the 6K tax savings elsewhere, like real estate, low turnover mutual fund, rare whiskey, antique guitars, collectible cars, etc.
-Like many things in life, just because you can (do a Roth), doesn't mean you should.
-With a Roth you are effectively investing more for retirement, because the taxes are pre-paid. As Ted74 pointed out, 18k into a Roth is equivalent to 24k in a Traditional assuming equal income tax burdens now and at retirement.
-Roth IRA does not have a required minimum distribution (RMD), which provides flexibility in timing your withdrawals.
-Roth IRA is a better estate planning tool due to the lack of RMD.
-Having a mix between Roth and Traditional allows you to steadily withdraw from the traditional, but still take a boatload (or truck load, plane load, Porsche load, etc) all in one year without bumping up your tax bracket.
-If you expect your tax bracket will be substantially lower in retirement, a Roth may not be an ideal choice. This is often the case for those nearing retirement.
-Instead of paying the taxes up front on a Roth, it may make more sense to defer 18K in a traditional plan and invest the 6K tax savings elsewhere, like real estate, low turnover mutual fund, rare whiskey, antique guitars, collectible cars, etc.
-Like many things in life, just because you can (do a Roth), doesn't mean you should.
07-01-2018, 02:54 PM
#35
Kerbal Rocket Surgeon
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DTW 717A
Posts: 1,099
Originally Posted by Gunfighter
There are several points to ponder regarding Roth vs Traditional.
-With a Roth you are effectively investing more for retirement, because the taxes are pre-paid. As Ted74 pointed out, 18k into a Roth is equivalent to 24k in a Traditional assuming equal income tax burdens now and at retirement.
-Roth IRA does not have a required minimum distribution (RMD), which provides flexibility in timing your withdrawals.
-Roth IRA is a better estate planning tool due to the lack of RMD.
-Having a mix between Roth and Traditional allows you to steadily withdraw from the traditional, but still take a boatload (or truck load, plane load, Porsche load, etc) all in one year without bumping up your tax bracket.
-If you expect your tax bracket will be substantially lower in retirement, a Roth may not be an ideal choice. This is often the case for those nearing retirement.
-Instead of paying the taxes up front on a Roth, it may make more sense to defer 18K in a traditional plan and invest the 6K tax savings elsewhere, like real estate, low turnover mutual fund, rare whiskey, antique guitars, collectible cars, etc.
-Like many things in life, just because you can (do a Roth), doesn't mean you should.
-With a Roth you are effectively investing more for retirement, because the taxes are pre-paid. As Ted74 pointed out, 18k into a Roth is equivalent to 24k in a Traditional assuming equal income tax burdens now and at retirement.
-Roth IRA does not have a required minimum distribution (RMD), which provides flexibility in timing your withdrawals.
-Roth IRA is a better estate planning tool due to the lack of RMD.
-Having a mix between Roth and Traditional allows you to steadily withdraw from the traditional, but still take a boatload (or truck load, plane load, Porsche load, etc) all in one year without bumping up your tax bracket.
-If you expect your tax bracket will be substantially lower in retirement, a Roth may not be an ideal choice. This is often the case for those nearing retirement.
-Instead of paying the taxes up front on a Roth, it may make more sense to defer 18K in a traditional plan and invest the 6K tax savings elsewhere, like real estate, low turnover mutual fund, rare whiskey, antique guitars, collectible cars, etc.
-Like many things in life, just because you can (do a Roth), doesn't mean you should.
07-01-2018, 03:22 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 760
Reasons I choose Roth vs Traditional
1- Company already makes contributions to my 401k. They will be subject to RMDs and taxes eventually.
2- Roth accounts aren’t subject to the government telling me when I must withdraw the funds (no RMDs). This will work well with my company contributions that will eventually be subject to RMDs.
3- “Tax insurance”. While my income and expenses will probably be lower on retirement, I’m GUESSING that tax rates will be much higher in 30 years. Assuming Roth rules remain in tact, they will be shielded from those higher tax rates. In theory.
That being said there is some validity to the “bird in the hand” argument. The tax advantages we can have today are real, future tax advantages are subject to the whims of the gutterment.
1- Company already makes contributions to my 401k. They will be subject to RMDs and taxes eventually.
2- Roth accounts aren’t subject to the government telling me when I must withdraw the funds (no RMDs). This will work well with my company contributions that will eventually be subject to RMDs.
3- “Tax insurance”. While my income and expenses will probably be lower on retirement, I’m GUESSING that tax rates will be much higher in 30 years. Assuming Roth rules remain in tact, they will be shielded from those higher tax rates. In theory.
That being said there is some validity to the “bird in the hand” argument. The tax advantages we can have today are real, future tax advantages are subject to the whims of the gutterment.
07-01-2018, 03:29 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,815
If you're making $300K+/yr right now as a line pilot ...
...how on God's green earth can your tax bracket (ie: income) be higher when you retire and your income is nothing ore than 401k withdrawals (and maybe SS)?
What am I missing?
...how on God's green earth can your tax bracket (ie: income) be higher when you retire and your income is nothing ore than 401k withdrawals (and maybe SS)?
What am I missing?
07-01-2018, 04:23 PM
#38
Roll’n Thunder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Pilot
Posts: 3,549
Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
If you're making $300K+/yr right now as a line pilot ...
...how on God's green earth can your tax bracket (ie: income) be higher when you retire and your income is nothing ore than 401k withdrawals (and maybe SS)?
What am I missing?
...how on God's green earth can your tax bracket (ie: income) be higher when you retire and your income is nothing ore than 401k withdrawals (and maybe SS)?
What am I missing?
07-01-2018, 04:35 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,226
Originally Posted by tennisguru
Because while you are paying a higher rate now, it is on a much smaller sum of money. After 20-30 years of steady investing the vast majority of money in your account will be growth, not what you actually put in. All that growth money is tax free at a cost of paying taxes on a much smaller amount up front.
Non Roth
100,000 x 10 = 1M x .7 = $700,000
Roth
100,000 x .7 x 10 = $700,000
Either leaves you with the same $700,000 at the end of the day. A 30% hit to the whole enchilada one way or the other.
Last edited by Schwanker; 07-01-2018 at 04:46 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
cloudseer
Flight Schools and Training
2
07-12-2011 05:51 PM
