Ummmmmm.....think it is only a paycut if the 319/320 got parked. Otherwise it is a pay increase b/c it is one xtra aircraft (that pays more than a B717 nonetheless).

Okay it pays less? How about that?

You want your LGBp, I want my 319neos, neither is happening. But oh well.

The big difference is that we could negotiate LGBP, we cannot force the company to buy 319s.

You know times are good when pilots are complaining about the type of new jobs their airline is adding.

Bovine scatology. Tell that to the Displaced ATL Maddog drivers with ZERO 321/737 seats opened up in ATL.

Lol. exactly. Could be a lot worse. Bringing mainline flying back to mainline with small jets. Not the end of the world. I like what we are doing. Would of course like to see some adds on the WB side, but this is going the right direction.

If they’re being displaced, there doesn’t need to be open positions offered on the bid. If they are senior enough to hold it, they can bump someone out. I know what you’re saying though, it would have been nice to make room for the excess guys like they did in MSP but some of those ATL guys are so junior, I don’t think they can offer enough A320, 717, and 737 A positions to help the MD88A’s stay in the left seat.

It was only a little over 2 years ago that a 16 year pilot could hold A320 Captain in NYC.

People forget that when the NYC and CVG Md88 categories closed, ATL gained a bunch of 88 seats without losing anything else. ATL is headed back to equilibrium for the amount of flying at the base. I suspect in future bids you will see 320/73N seats to replace the mad dog seats.

Pretty sure the ever popular A319NEO was never really in the mix of the 110 seat RFP. The options were the Jumbo Junglejet 190 or the CanaBus. Network keeps calling it an RJ replacement, so mainline growth not replacement. I get your argument about upgauging to a higher pay rate. I'm sure there will be a big chunk of the 125 orders converted to the -300 series, which is 319 territory. But I also understand the rationale of the A220-300 being a superior airplane to the A319NEO, and we got it for a great price.

If it wasn't going to be the A220, which would you prefer: A319NEO or 737-MAX7? 737 has the higher pay rate...

No disrespect but just because no seats opened in the center of the universe doesn’t make it not true. On this bid they open roughly the same number of 73/320 positions as displaced MD positions, it is about 13 crews less. There are 50 A positions between those two fleets opening in ATL the rest spread around the system. The company has repeatedly stated the 73/320 are the mad dog replacements.

Yes it sucks when your base is has more displacements than openings those of us outside of ATL have watched this for years in our bases. Those of us in former North bases have lost well over a thousand seats between MEM, MSP, and DTW. Also look at CVG. I am hoping this is the beginning of spreading the love around a bit more (source is Council 1LEC email to members numbers I have are my best recollection of email)

It may not be nice for the few displaced off the 88, but the reality for the other 14,000 pilots is that we added captain positions that are senior to the ones we lost. The junior As in Atlanta were a short term anomaly driven by the closure of NYC that benefited a portion of the seniority list. ATL is returning to equilibrium.

We are adding more higher paying CA positions system wide then we are losing from parking MD88’s. The C series positions are icing on the cake. I am sure however if they are such a negative to the pilot group we could convince managent to have Delta connection fly them.

Edward H. Bastian Chief Executive Officer & Director, Delta Air Lines, Inc.

Well, I'll let Paul and Jill provide some of the detailed reconciliation of the numbers. Part of the increase is the higher completion factor that we're running above plan. That's a meaningful part of it.

But the other thing to think about when you're looking at our overall 3% capacity up, that's entirely gauge and stage-related. Departures actually are down for the full year. Our expectations are departures count will be down. And when you think within the industry, I think we're the only major – maybe the only airline out there that's got departures down.

So I think we're being very prudent as to how we're thinking about capacity. We are certainly outperforming the industry on revenue production and revenue productivity. And we also know that we've got to a big non-fuel CASM reduction plan that we are working heavily on and fleet is a big part of that too.

Can we wait to see how that plays out once all the 88s are actually gone?

And what's a C series?

Sadly it is not translating into highest profits with the price of fuel. You will see that on Feb 14th.

But dont we own the refinery?

I'm pretty sure owning a refinery is different than owning the ground the crude comes from. There is only so much you can control

Yes, it’s not turned out like we hoped.

[MENTION=8313]Mesabah[/MENTION] is right.

Fuel Speculators have been driving prices higher than actual value of supply increases.

This is why Pres. Trump is now considering releasing some oil from the SPR (strategic petroleum reserves).


Some of you can joke all you want but it’s facts. Read more & watch more Bloomberg TV/CNBC/Financial Times/Fox Business/CNN Money.

Oil speculators even more than OPEC (according to economists) are propping up oil prices, so much so OPEC is considering increasing production, because prices have risen much more quick than expected.

Don’t mock, get facts! Poster above is correct.

Profit sharing is up 19% over last year so far. Non-fuel costs are supposed to be reduced in the next two quarters. I think February 14 will be pretty good.

Not saying its not true, but if it is that's a classic bubble. If your serious I'd short oil about Oct. 20th. I'm thinking its more related to carbon surcharges during the EU/brexit transition but I've been wrong before. More regulation diversity means more blends and more cost to produce.

Profit sharing % or the amount set aside? I don’t want to be into another 10 page discussion but we as pilots are getting a significantly smaller share of the pool this year. 19% more set aside means a smaller check on 14 Feb. We had this discussion in Feb with the effects of the change in the last quarter.
Keep in mind also the effects of the fuel cost increase are going to be a lot more in the 3rd and 4th quarter.

He is considering releasing oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve because the midterms are November 6. The SPR is supposed to be used for “strategic” reasons affecting the US. Not political reasons like more Dems might be win House seats because gas prices are high.

Not surprisingly, the White House, thinking they’re being clever, have Iranian oil sanctions kicking in November 4th. Oil speculators, also being clever people, plan ahead.

Not to mock, but I might add the OPEC likes high prices. OPEC’s mission statement: "coordinate and unify the petroleum policies of its member countries and ensure the stabilization of oil markets, in order to secure an efficient, economic and regular supply of petroleum to consumers, a steady income to producers, and a fair return on capital for those investing in the petroleum industry."

i.e. keep prices high

Surely we don’t have to debate this?

Please explain. I have heard our VPs of Flight Ops say exactly the opposite. Are they not being truthful. Just adding I have heard this multiple times in the last few years from them.

The refinery brought around a 45 million benefit the last qtr according to the press release. What it has brought that’s not totally accountable every qtr is a smaller and less volatile crack spread every day. While the smaller and less volatile crack spread helps all airlines it has certainly brought order to a market that had shown wild swings for years prior to the refinery opening.

It's actually the opposite of what you say. OPEC has been trying to devastate the US oil industry.

Read all the quarterly reports. We make money some quarters and lose money other quarters. Nothing close to repaying our investment and potential future liabilities. The extra jet A available in the NE lowered everyone’s price so we gained no real advantage there.
United and American both said they would watch our results closely before deciding to purchase a refinery. They don’t seem very interested at this point.

It was said many years ago when the refinery was bought that it wasn’t just going to benefit Delta but most others also. The main benefit was lowering and smoothing the crack spread which had been out of control. Trainer was to add stability to the jet fuel market. Which it has. It has also allowed Delta to partially eliminate that in our plan. It has done that while turning a profit.

I am a pilot. Not an airline exec. But even I can see that Trainer has been a success.

I don’t think there are other refineries for purchase. It’s not like the housing market. They are not out there for sale. As I recall Trainer was a steal and a one of a kind opportunity that was jumped on by Delta.

I bet we would not do it over again given the choice. We are no where close to payback on the total investment. They hired consultants last year to see about getting rid of it. Note the last line in the article.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-d...-idUSKBN16L24H

GOL isn’t cutting flying. In fact...

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/farnborough-gol-grows-737-max-orderbook-450303/

http://ri.voegol.com.br/default_download.asp?NArquivo=GOL%20Increases%20B7 37%20MAX%20Order%20to%20135%20-%2016July201809h00.pdf&arquivo=DE01A2CC-5393-466F-B518-3E27516F6EFA

march 14, 2017

It's funny lookin

https://cdn.airplane-pictures.net/im.../31/877615.jpg

Airbus Underboob!

Only the bean counters know the real story. But the quote above makes my argument correct. But there are also quotes that break it down. Time will tell. How much it’s reduced the crack spread I think is the key. How much? Ask the bean counters.

The catch is that it’s reducing everyone’s fuel cost but Delta assumes all the liability, especially environmental. Employees at the plant were and are concerned Delta may shut it down.
I do find it interesting that pilots who will argue that virtually every management statement is a outright lie or at best a half truth will take every management comment on the refinery as gospel. Especially considering admitting it was a mistake reflects negatively on the management team.

Yeah well you’re funny, funny lookin!

Excellent. You nailed it.

LOL if Iran did that, they'd be leveled. Empty threat.