Originally Posted by 3 green (Post 2636683)

Why do you think this will cost Delta more money...Am i misreading the memo?

Originally Posted by Two Kings (Post 2636862)

There are almost 2,000 pilots currently at Endeavor and Delta will only hire at maximum 180 per year the rest will likely sit in a queue like the SSP candidates.

Originally Posted by GogglesPisano (Post 2636872)

How do BA/AF/KLM/LH do it?

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 2636873)

If we reduced defense spending to 1% of GDP and made them raise to 4%, we could have all the free pilots we wanted with the savings. :cool:

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 2636867)

I can't see how this will accomplish anything to address the pilot supply issues unless DL ponies up. If DL (or whatever airline that pursues anything close to ab initio) doesn't pay, then this will have a negligibile effect. I don't see that many additional people being able to, much less willing to, go into med school levels of debt for this.

Originally Posted by Baradium (Post 2636870)

According to Mesabah, most of the captains are "stuck" which gets us down to let's say 1400. Assume a 75% acceptance rate and that's 1,050. That'd be under 6 years for all pilots on property. At 1000 pilots and 75% it'd be just over 4 years. It sounds like the 6 year movement still puts those pilots ahead of any of the pilots under this new program.

Originally Posted by Hawaii50 (Post 2636634)

I hate to rain on the parade but I've had concerns recommending the career to my kids mainly because technology is moving so fast I'm not sure how long aircraft will have 2 or more pilots. Anyone else have these concerns or am I out to lunch?

Originally Posted by Hawaii50 (Post 2636634)

I hate to rain on the parade but I've had concerns recommending the career to my kids mainly because technology is moving so fast I'm not sure how long aircraft will have 2 or more pilots. Anyone else have these concerns or am I out to lunch?

Originally Posted by surfnski (Post 2636896)

Coulda swore I read somewhere we were overstaffed and cutting back flying?

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2636891)

Flow negotiations started today, so that may delay it even further if there is captain movement.

Originally Posted by GuardPolice (Post 2636917)

You don’t know anything about Delta if you think the word “flow” is being negotiated.

The best I see being agreed to is unlimited interview attempts with a required “cooling off” period between attempts.

I don’t pretend to know everything, but I can assure you flow is not being negotiated. If it were, it would negate the entire Propel collegiate program. For the record, the Propel program is not a flow, not in any shape or form. Think of it as a 4-6 year probation period. Imagine the stress that would give most pilots. These students will earn their spot at Delta...period.

Originally Posted by APCLurker (Post 2636904)

I completely agree with this as well. Not out to lunch at all.

With the pace of technology proceeding like it is, I can easily see my kids being in their early 40's (or earlier) when they get the boot from this career due to automation. Then they get to try and start new careers in their 40's....

My guess is we see single pilot within 20 years or so and zero around 25 to 30. I'll bet we have some on property right now that may not finish out a full career to 65 (if what I've heard about 26 year old hires is true).

Originally Posted by marcal (Post 2636946)

I don't agree or disagree with you, but just for discussion:

-Boeing and AB are rolling out 2 pilot aircraft with zero slowdown as fast as they can. These aircraft typically have 30 year lifespans.

Yep. 30 years.....

-Airlines like ours will go out of business before we have single pilot or zero pilot aircraft because our union will prevent it(as they should).

You have faaar more faith that our "union" would or could stop this than I. You really think airlines would be shut down? The .gov would sit by and allow airlines to go out of business because the union is against one or zero pilot aircraft?

-It took the FAA something like 20 years to simply certify DME for use in navigation. I can't imagine how long it will take to certify pilotless aircraft for mass civil use.

When the bribe money starts to flow to the politicians all obstacles will disappear. Or the "pilot shortage" or some other excuse will drive the "crisis" and need to fast-track certification.

-How many times have you ever had to take over an autoland?

None. And been on an autoland A/C for over 10 years now.

-The likely path to single pilot or zero pilot aircraft is an upstart that buys them and organically grows their usership. They'll then have to partner with larger airlines, etc to get entrenched and takeover with the concept.

I think we have a good 5-10 years AFTER the first mass civilian pilotless prototype is built. Haven't even seen one on the drawing board. In fact, the Boeing NMA is a two pilot aircraft and is just now being drawn up.

I've also read that the capability to reduce or remove pilots is being built into future designs.

These are all just discussion points.

Yep.

Originally Posted by Klondike Bear (Post 2636430)

Only one of those schools has a good football program. Seems like an easy choice.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2636484)

The tier 1 candidates already move to mainline after less than 24 months, why would they commit to 42 months, when the hiring boom is just getting started?

Originally Posted by GuardPolice (Post 2636700)

Delta doesn’t pay for anything other than the on-campus events and off-campus social events and administrative costs. Very minimal investment to get our culture into these schools and promote the brand.

Originally Posted by Baradium (Post 2636864)

It was poor wording, I mean the pay is better than $40k

Originally Posted by Viking busdvr (Post 2636649)

Not to worry—. Once Bernie is elected it will all be free!! :D

Originally Posted by hvydvr (Post 2637079)

Had a long conversation with one of my kids about flying. We live in south Texas. I told him to learn business and how to fix air conditioners. I told him I’d fly his King Air as my retirement job.

There is simply no way I’d recommend this to my kids. If it was their dream, that’s a
different matter. As a job of choice, not so much.

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 2636867)

I don't see that many additional people being able to, much less willing to, go into med school levels of debt for this.

Originally Posted by APCLurker (Post 2636904)

My guess is we see single pilot within 20 years or so and zero around 25 to 30. I'll bet we have some on property right now that may not finish out a full career to 65 (if what I've heard about 26 year old hires is true).

Originally Posted by bentwookie (Post 2637095)

He was taking on massive loans to go from zero to airline pilot ASAP and was told in his initial tour "not to worry about getting a bachelors degree because Delta would be tossing that requirement as soon as...

Originally Posted by Pushta Ailsouth (Post 2637062)

Steve Dickson has said that a financial incentive piece will become part of this.

Originally Posted by House of Usher (Post 2636777)

I completely agree. First we'll see single pilot ops at the cargo carriers. Once that's perfected, then it'll be at the pax carriers. Next will be pilotless operations with cargo. There will be firestorm lobbying efforts in congress. It won't matter; foreign airlines (Asia, ME3,etc) will have no heartburn whatsoever eliminating pilots from the cockpit as technological advancements continue to accelerate. The cry from US domestic airlines will be "Hey, we can't compete against uneven regulations!" And then poof, pilots will join the ranks of the elevator operators from the past.

Originally Posted by Flying Monkey (Post 2637252)

DARPA is actively working with the cargo carriers on a robot copilot. 2 years ago when I heard about it the projected timeline for that was 5-10 years. Not surprisingly they were having issues with the human to robot interaction. For some reason they can't get it to convincingly say "Great job, sir!", or "That was a funny joke, Captain! I haven't heard that one."

I've told my son he needs to be strong in computer programming and have that as a plan B.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/fli...t-737-landing/

Originally Posted by tennisguru (Post 2637261)

What I fail to see is how a robot like that manipulating the controls is any different than an autopilot system already in place. We already know that automation can fly and land the plane with incredible accuracy. Where the single pilot cockpit concept starts to break down in my mind is in judgement/decision making in dynamic, rapidly changing environments and of course in emergency/non-normal operations. Even with an autopilot flying the airplane two pilots can become task saturated very quickly. Another "pilot" assisting from a central command center on the ground is no match for another pair of experienced eyes in the cockpit helping to see and evaluate the situation as it is unfolding.

Originally Posted by tennisguru (Post 2637261)

What I fail to see is how a robot like that manipulating the controls is any different than an autopilot system already in place. We already know that automation can fly and land the plane with incredible accuracy. Where the single pilot cockpit concept starts to break down in my mind is in judgement/decision making in dynamic, rapidly changing environments and of course in emergency/non-normal operations. Even with an autopilot flying the airplane two pilots can become task saturated very quickly. Another "pilot" assisting from a central command center on the ground is no match for another pair of experienced eyes in the cockpit helping to see and evaluate the situation as it is unfolding.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2637375)

There will always be two people controlling passenger jets. The question is what skill level, and licensing will be required with future automation. I don't think the six figure salaries will last till the end of a 30+ year career.

The time, skills, commitment, and capability to become a Delta pilot, could easily land you a 7 figure job in silicon valley. You can work from home after a period of time in a lot of cases.

Teach your kids linear algebra, and statistics as early as possible.

Originally Posted by Pushta Ailsouth (Post 2637054)

...but one of the weakest flight programs.

Originally Posted by Klondike Bear (Post 2636430)

Only one of those schools has a good football program. Seems like an easy choice.

Originally Posted by Imapilot2 (Post 2637490)

Really? The one with the flight school that ranks in the top five nationally almost every year, wins NIFA regionals almost every year and National Flight Team titles? You mean that's school?

Originally Posted by Imapilot2 (Post 2637490)

Really? The one with the flight school that ranks in the top five nationally almost every year, wins NIFA regionals almost every year and National Flight Team titles? You mean that's school?