"In general, the Notes proceeds were allocated such that, using various assumptions, active pilots would receive a Note allocation equal to the greater of a) the lump sum value of 100% of their projected qualified DB Plan loss and 60% of their projected non-qualified plan loss, or b) a “years of service” (YOS) allocation. The YOS allocation simply calculated each pilot’s Note allocation as equal to $5,790 for each year of benefit service prior to the DAL DB Plan freeze date of December 31, 2004. For a more complete description of this allocation formula, please see ADC Dispatch 07-09, available on the Delta MEC website."

According to this the loss the DZers tool was 40% of their non-qualified plan. How to quantify that into FAE loss is the big question. Moreover, how much of that loss was alleviated with the increase in DC later is the next question

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I'd like him to stay right there. What he said was true.

We (the younger Delta pilots) weren’t driving the bus, it already steamrolled you guys. Now we don’t even want to cross that street again, you guys (older Delta Pilots) have a Stockholm syndrome desire to run back into the same street the bus hit you on.

We were all promised things in our careers that have gone unfulfilled, some were our fault, many happened to us. A majority of us aren’t willing to pursue what was taken from you, and it is easily argued it is pretty much impossible to replace it anyway. I understand how and what was taken from you, it totally blows, I’m sure something will come along and screw all of us youngsters too.

Why are you so angry that we don’t want what you want? Most of us agree in the compromise of retirement medical, maybe we run with that idea that get bogged down on how much a PBGC(which by the way is on the path to insolvency) payment is too low from what it should have been.

Well, the mob has spoken and he’s gone. That didn’t take too long.


Scoop

I don't think anyone expects 60% of current earnings. The DC money happened after the BK and pension termination. DC wasn't a replacement for the $ already earned: it was the pension plan that followed. The loss Denny and others think should be replaced was what was already earned at BK. PBGC replaced about half of my age 60 frozen benefit. Probably 30-50k annually would probably cover the loss for most.. my math. The Note and Claim $ weren't specifically designated as retirement replacement $ (although most used them as such) or the PBGC documents would have taken that into account (like it calculated MPPP value and Social Security offsets). That BK monies were allowed to go in retirement accounts was ALPA playing the legislative end. Personally, I don't expect squat from DAL. BUT, After paying down massive debt, spending $ on huge stock buybacks, saving the other pensions, reinstating a 6 ct dividend (and raising it repeatedly), after purchasing huge equity stakes in foreign carriers: DAL should do the right thing and it shouldn't involve contract negotiations. They won't. JMO, OFG

Doesn't matter now because it sounds like he has been asked to resigned and he acquiesced.

Anyway, I'd say he's maybe half right and there is a difference in being against an old school pension and being arrogant and showing a lack of empathy. While some people may embody what he has accused, I don't think that's the attitude of the group overall.

16% is perfectly adequate...not really.

DPSP cashed tweeked...nah, keep it as is and work another retirement vehicle.

Vacation sellback...agreed, NFW!

We need time off to enjoy life...could't agree more!

Retiree Medical...totally disagree. We absolutely need and should want better retiree medical. This is a tide that lifts all boats as more dudes may be compelled to leave early and keep seniority progression moving.

Maxing out HSA...some of us are not eligible for an HSA.

QOL and Work rules at the front...Right behind scope.

The Note were specifically earmarked for retirement:

"On September 1, 2007, 120 days after Delta exited bankruptcy, the majority of the $650 million ALPA Note proceeds (discussed above) was distributed to eligible pre-merger Delta pilots. The Claim allocation formula principally focused on non-retirement concessions; the Notes allocation formula primarily addressed retirement and other concessions, and for this reason is now briefly further discussed (the Claim and Notes allocation formulas were developed by a DAL MEC committee (the Allocation and Distribution Committee , or ADC) and approved by the DAL MEC)."

This combined with my previous post, as I read it, means a Deadzoner's PBGC benefit, plus Note, plus DC money + conservative average investment return of 5 to 6% annually should be somewhere in the ballpark of 50-60% FAE. At the time of these calculations further increases to the DC% were not accounted so that pushes the math even closer to 60% FAE.




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No matter how many times you say it, the desire to run back to a DB simply isn't completely true... at least in my case. And if it is, the previous examples of a DB have changed. There are other options.

I'm not 'angry' that you don't want what I want. I am somewhat shocked that you are so willing to say **** you to those that lost more than you ever will at this airline. Not surprised completely, but a little shocked that you are so open about it.

So let's talk about what you want and what I want. I want you to have better scope protections. That is part of being a member of the union. I leave in 7 years. Scope protections for you do nothing for MY career, so why should I give a damn about them? Because it is the right thing to do. I would like to leave this place a little better than I found it. So how about a little reciprocity? Doesn't seem to be in your lexicon. The only thing I am hearing from you is "yeah, you got screwed. Too bad. Next". Convince me I am wrong.

Not to worry, I am sure he will show up in some other committee.

But at least we have union committee members that were willing to help the company in that regard.