Sick Verification
 

I had a question about the new sick verification. I sicked out of a 4-day trip. This pushes my look back balance to just over 100 hours for the past 12 months. Do I need to get this one verified or only subsequent ones after the 100 hour mark? First time I have had this since working at Delta so don’t want to screw it up.

The one that takes you over 100 does not need to be verified. Subsequent sick calls will require verification while your look back is over 100 hrs.

Denny

You only have to verify a sick when the chief pilot office emails you asking to verify. Otherwise don’t sweat it, unless you’re not sick.

So that QHCP note or whatnot in your timecard is not an automatic verify? I wondered about that.

I did too. I thought it was.

I’ve never been asked to verify but I wonder what happens when you check your email after you are well. Do you just go to the doctor and say write me a note I was sick but got better?

I'd bring that form they want you to print out when you see the doctor. It seems there's no choice but to see a doctor once you're over the 100 hr limit. And God help you if you have the squirts and need to see a "doc in a box." The last time I did that, they checked that I was ready for work. So I took a ton of immodium and ate a block of cheese and went. To work.

Where in iCrew does it show your sick time usage?

Thanks! What worries me is having the squirts in the middle of the night. If I am fine in the morning I guess I’ll just have to be convicing that I was actually sick. Or I could take a picture of the toilet after I exploded for evidence.

Go to the time card menu. There are a couple ways to view it from there.

Denny

Best to consult a QHCP at this point. I've exhausted my medical advice.

If it says QHCP on your time card, you have exceeded the 100 hours in a 12 month window and need to verify. At the beginning of each bid period, the lookback occurs. If you’re under 100 hours it will say none. If during that bid period, you call in sick and that takes you over 100 hours, the time card should still say none, until the next bid period, when another look back occurs.

At least that’s how I’ve always understood it to work.

Channeling my inner Long-Duck-Dong: https://youtu.be/dGSAtGOX3wY

That is correct. Your verification status is determined on a bid period by bid period basis. It is set for the entire bid period and does not change until the following bid period. When you view your schedule, look in the upper right hand corner where it says VERIFY: XXXX. That will indicate NONE, QHCP or DOC (not for certain what is displayed for the Doctor requirement, it could be something else like DCTR).

Okay. Now...



How do these two comments mesh? I think that's what the OP was trying to understand. And I'm sure it's what I'm trying to figure out.

Bahahahahh [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji15]


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Sick Verification
 

I understand the confusion. The statement that you only have to verify if the CPO emails you is not contractually accurate. While it may be true (and I don’t know that it universally is) that the CPO sends out a reminder email regarding a required verification, that is not the trigger to indicate you have to verify or not. The pre month lookback is and your status is indicated on your schedule for the bid period. If the CPO forgot to email you, or you don’t have a valid email in DBMS, that would have zero bearing on your requirement to verify in accordance with the contract.

Just realize that, if you do not need to verify in the month you get sick and that sick occurrence carry’s over into the next month (which now makes that month QHCP Verify), you do not need to verify the occurrence that took you over 100 hours. This exact thing happened to me from Jan-Feb. I emailed pilot leaves verified what I’m saying.

Denny

I once asked my doctor for a sick note after a procedure, and we shared a momentary awkward silence, to which he replied “You fly airplanes, yet your employer doesn’t trust that you were sick? Okay...I’ll work on that note.” [emoji53]


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So if one gets sick from a crew meal, does catering qualify as a QHCP?

Ate the Lasagna on SFO-BOS the other day.. Got to know the bathroom at the Park Plaza very well over the next 18 hours.

Should qualify for OJI

I would have been happy with positive space home. Much better to get better laying in bed with wife bringing gatorade and saltines, than either in the hotel with housekeeping knocking every 5 minutes despite the do not disturb sign, or in the crash pad.

I got positive space to JFK.

How's that work? Unless JFK is home?

I got sick mid-trip once (food poisoning). Toughed it out and worked the flight back to a hub only to realize that my wife still had my house keys with her while visiting family on the other side of the country from home. Never left the airport and just booked myself PS to my parent's place (different part of the country from where I live) to recuperate for a few days. Never talked to anyone, never heard a peep about it.

I had thought we were supposed to be able to go home if sick, but crew tracking said positive space to base, stay in hotel until well or get self home.

I took the positive space to JFK, since its easier to get home from than BOS, and if non rev fell through my crash pad was there at least.

I was too sick / out of it to look up in the contract. I got on the last JS home so it was not an issue.

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Unless something has changed you can’t Jumpseat while sick. You are considered an extra crew member. Not to mention possibly getting the working crew sick.

How the F are you supposed to go home if sick then?

Granted I had food poisoning sobits not like I could give them a chunk of bad lasagna

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Get PS back to base and had to nonrev home. Told explicitly you can’t JS. Call the duty pilot - they’ll help. You can use PS on whichever leg looks worse load wise. Had to do this a year ago from food poising on a layover.

What?

So you must either non rev home, or return to base PS instead of going PS directly home, but you can then pick if you want the sick place to base leg or the base to home leg to be PS but not the sick place to home leg? That make absolutely no sense. You can't PS home, but you can non rev to base and then PS home? That's absolutely insane.

This horrendous provision has to go...
 

Make no mistake: "Sick Leave Verification" is another term for "Pilot Pushing."

The pilot is the expert on whether they're healthy and able to fly, not some random stranger in the form of a "doc in the box."

Nobody from Flight Ops is coming down the jetway asking for a doctor note when they need you to automatically extend your duty day or go up to 16 hours....are they? (Are you rested? Did you have enough or anything to eat today?) They trust you that you are a professional and will make the safe call.

But go over 99.99 hours of sick leave and now you are "no longer trustworthy" is the message being put forth.

No bueno and hope it is addressed in the next contract.

This was a give on our current contract, and I don’t see it going away anytime soon. Having said that, if you’re sick, don’t share a cockpit with me. I don’t need your germs!

Can one submit a request for reimbursement for said DR's note? Haven't gotten that far myself with sick time yet. But since they require it they should pay for it. That or give us better insurance that 100% covers drs visits...

Yes and no. There was always verification, but you used to be able to preverify which you can now only do for reasons that almost never happen. They also changed to a rolling 12 month window instead of set calendar year. Having just recently gone to the doc for a non-qualifying injury, it definitely would've been nice to preverify since I was there anyway instead of having to make an unnecessary doctor's appointment for some future cold I might have should I go over 100 hours of sick usage.

To me our sick leave verification, assumed extension policy, and FRB are all examples of Delta pushing pilots as ayecarumba stated earlier. It'll save the bean counters a few pennies here and there right until it doesn't and there's a monstrous coming to jesus moment.

Right. This was a huge give and one less piece of swiss cheese in the stack.

Being able to preverify worked exactly like you described; when you're at the Dr's anyway, or when you know you have an easily verifiable condition, you could get the note to reduce future scrutiny. Now OTOH, you're dependant on whatever you happen to get on the 101st hour (just to oversimplify, no need to quote the entire legalese on it) and if that condition is something hard to verify, then you will be pressured to fly with it and inevitably some do because no one knows what happens when you go get a required note under official scrutiny and the note only says "ops check good could not duplicate" or "patient reports...could not verify". Then what? No one really knows and that seems to be by design.

I believe they believe that. However its logical that many pilots don't want to push it, don't want the scrutiny, and don't want to get close to the 100 much less over it for "minor" or borderline conditions, so the incentive is there to just carry it at virtually any hour mark. That has to result in more on the road sick outs as well as getting others sick. We look at this in the context of "abusers" and supposedly everyone has the restrictions we do because of a few so accused individuals. Certain entities want to reduce the "abuse" and see such efforts as reducing total sick call time/credit etc. More productivity and the like. However what likely never makes the White Papers much less the negotiating table is the downline consequences of the policies. If you are faced with your first sick call that triggers the verification and its a full blown flu/pnemonia or some well documented condition where your Dr will air drop notes like confetti after the moon landing, then you have nothing to worry about. But if its a borderline condition (upset stomach, mild-moderate nausea and many others) that are probably unmeasurable by a third party...now what? So it becomes easier to just carry it in to work.

The pitfalls of the current system are going to be extremely hard to claw back in C19 and I doubt there's even a "mandate" to do so with all the rest that will be focused on. If anything, we will be under pressure to give even more back because this is viewed as a net cost hemmoraging item.

Oh, I know how it used to work. I used to print a verification form for every dr visit. And I know how it currently works.



But my point remains. It was a give on the last go-round. It won't come back. Unless and until, as you point out, a monstrous moment should occur. Hope it doesn't, but wish this sick give wasn't ratified.

Dodo,

Um, when I'm sick I call out sick. "That being said"..., don't worry, sounds like I would never want to share a cockpit with you anytime anyway.

I understand this was part of our current contract. It was an all or nothing package, not a vote on the individual provisions. Next you're going to tell me what a great deal reroutes are.

You must have some kind of secret dossier that gives you insight into what the entire pilot group wants at any given moment....or it maybe this guy is your hero...the one that you would love to fly with as he never called in sick in 45 years.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/today...d-run/1978041/

I guess with your attitude we should never seek improvements or bother re-negotiating anything since once it's done it's "game over" in your book.

Umm, I think you misunderstand me, ayecarumba.
I was only trying to say that this poop-sandwich we took with the last contract ratification was detrimental to our ability to determine whether we are safe to fly. My comment about not sharing a cockpit with me while sick was meant to say, "don't fly if you're sick!!!"
I completely understand the sick give was a poop-sandwich we collectively decided to eat for the gains realized. My only point was don't let this stupid verification program force you to sit next to me because the company is forcing you to. I don't want to get sick and bring that back to my family after a trip any more than you probably do.


"That being said," I wouldn't mind flying with you (unless you are sick!)

Post script:
I gaze with a hairy eyeball at anyone who never once calls in sick.

I think I understood what you were saying. Not sure ayecarumba did, though.

You don't want to fly with someone who buckles to this absurd sick policy. Amiright?

Umm, I think you misunderstand me, ayecarumba.
Ahh, thank you for clarifying that...I was worried you might actually enjoy hanging around the urgent care waiting room for 4 hours to be seen by a PA and paying an extra $10 for them to fax the required form to Delta. That was fun, fun, fun. :D

And I clarify my statement to read:
https://media.giphy.com/media/7Zs1nCdZFTRjq/giphy.gif

Cheers, -AC

What is a non-qualifying injury? Sure, I guess there are injuries that might not impact your ability to walk a jet bridge, yank on a yoke or push a rudder pedal, but isn’t any physical injury and resultant need for medical care (i.e. going to the ER when you are scheduled to fly) a legit utilization of sick benefits? Let’s say my jigsaw jumped while working on a craft project and lacerated my abdomen. Non life threatening if treated properly, with zero impact on mobility, aside from a bit of pain sitting up. Sure, I could fly. But I don’t want to and I need to seek treatment. Is that not cause for a sick call?